Re: Guide wrap air pockets

feeds@yuku.com (dorenac) — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 13:51:15 GMT

It's up front expensive, but in using the Epifanes I found that I don't need to use oil finishes or thinners. In fact my friend advised that oil additives might be avoided. The Epifanes is so thick and dries slowly enough that it puts down a very nice heavy first coat without much else. The buildup with one coat is equivalent to about 3 thinner coats. I do put the rod section on the turner and let it rotate for a few hours. Drying is fairly slow but very even. I'm using...

Re: Guide wrap air pockets

feeds@yuku.com (eastprong) — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 09:46:23 GMT

I haven't tried this yet, but I plan to experiment with the old homebrew woodworker's recipe for an oil/varnish finish as a first coat on wraps: 1 part spar: 1 part boiled linseed oil: 1 part turpentine. I'm guessing that the extra oil will slow the drying and will penetrate better. Anyone try this?

--Rich

Re: Guide wrap air pockets

feeds@yuku.com (dorenac) — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 20:30:13 GMT

The clear guide wraps difficulty may have been solved in a remarkable and obvious way. Since I use Epifanes I had always thinned and applied to the wraps with mixed results, as I'd explained earlier on this thread. Well, on the advice of a fellow rodmaker, I tried the Epifanes straight and thick out of the can. After thorough stirring I applied just a few drops to each wrap and the results were amazing. The varnish slowly and completely absorbed into the silks leaving no air...

Re: Guide wrap air pockets

feeds@yuku.com (shuksanrods) — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 19:50:26 GMT

as I mentioned I put thinned spar over gossamer wraps, what works for me also to keep air out from under/around the guide feet, is I put the first coat on and let it cure with the guides hanging down (horizonally), I don't utilize a rod turner. The air stays out from under the foot and the varnish cures that way, with some help from gravity.

I don't worry about drips or sags, as once I have a couple coats of finish over the wraps I sand the wrapped flats anyway and clean up...

Re: Guide wrap air pockets

feeds@yuku.com (dorenac) — Mon, 01 Sep 2008 11:16:04 GMT

As written of late I've been experimenting in an attempt to get consistent, on demand, clear guide wraps. Consistancy has been my biggest challenge. So far thread tension, heated wraps, and proper varnish thinning have each contributed to greater success. A fourth technique needs to be included now. After application of the varnish, one must keep the silks well wetted and allow the varnish to not only soak in completely but to dry slowly. And I suspect that a second application...

Re: Guide wrap air pockets

feeds@yuku.com (rlnunleycom) — Tue, 26 Aug 2008 17:25:36 GMT

Below is a picture of a guide wrap I did on a rod repair this last week (finished this week). This is low thread tension, spar varnish, the way I described above. It's crystal clear, no air bubbles, no shimmers, no pockets. I didn't try the heat gun yet... Joe kind of made me gun shy, reminding me of my tendancy to burn things down!!!

Re: Guide wrap air pockets

feeds@yuku.com (rlnunleycom) — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 10:18:43 GMT

Joe, I think I remember that from days of yore on the original listserv. There were maybe a couple of dozen of us on WAY back when! Well, more than that, but not the HUNDREDS that are on today.

Your story reminds me of an event at SRG. One of the attendees was showing his first rod, but nobody saw it. He talked about how he had left it in his heat treating oven too long then drew a bottle of ashes from his pocket and showed them to everyone.

Joe, I think they've...

Re: Guide wrap air pockets

feeds@yuku.com (Joe Arguello) — Fri, 22 Aug 2008 09:30:25 GMT

I AM going to try heating the silk. I mean, why not... one of my heat guns sits right by the wrapping table in the shop, so it's not like it's going to take any more time.

OH, OH this sounds like trouble brewing on the horizon! What do they call this 'a pending Nunleyism'?
Let us know when the smoke clears!

I remember early in the begining...

Re: Guide wrap air pockets

feeds@yuku.com (rlnunleycom) — Thu, 21 Aug 2008 18:16:13 GMT

Thread tension is very important... more important that what thread you use. I use 00 white with just enough tension to hold the guide foot in place, varnish them and get super clear wraps... no air pockets, no shimmers, can't see the tag ends, etc... I simply use Last and Last Marine Door and Spar Varnish. I put it on heavy (I use a very thin natural sable brush) then wick most of it off. I also start right at the base of the guide food and let the varnish "wick" up the...

Re: Guide wrap air pockets

feeds@yuku.com (dorenac) — Wed, 20 Aug 2008 15:22:58 GMT

As a follow-up to my earlier post this month I want to report some progress. It may be that I was using way too much thread tension. That has been changed. But some other changes have been implemented, too. I use Epifanes to varnish, and now dilute it 50/50 with naptha. Next as per Rolf Baginski I heat the silk, and finally varnish is applied with small badger hair artist brushes. These adjustments seem to work very nicely. I will continue to experiment with thread tension some more....

Re: Guide wrap air pockets

feeds@yuku.com (dorenac) — Sun, 03 Aug 2008 10:58:20 GMT

I've tried the method Baginski describes in his book but have not had the fantastic results he achieves. That's why I mentioned a varnish with tung oil.

Re: Guide wrap air pockets

feeds@yuku.com (Lee Koch) — Sun, 03 Aug 2008 09:49:01 GMT

Some rodmakers apply walnut oil to the wraps, let it soak in, then wick off excess. Repeat an hour later. Let sit 24hrs, then apply a coat of waterlox. The waterlox is apparently pretty "hot" and it "kicks" the walnut oil, helping it to set up.

I used to use walnut oil, but it took forever to dry (a month or 2?) and I don't have that much patience. My Man-O-War would not "kick" the walnut oil, and then I'd end up with a gooey mess on my...

Re: Guide wrap air pockets

feeds@yuku.com (dorenac) — Sun, 03 Aug 2008 07:09:23 GMT

John, thanks ,I will try your idea as I'm not well satisfied with the current results. By the way I was mistaken. Although I do use Gossamer most often, this particular rod is being wrapped with YLI white silk. On another note, have you or anyone else for that matter tried Waterlox? It has a blend of tung, linseed, and phenolic resins and other varnishes?
Rich

Re: Guide wrap air pockets

feeds@yuku.com (john channer) — Sat, 02 Aug 2008 23:11:13 GMT

Rich,
Try it for yourself, make some test wraps of various colors of Gossamer, 3/0 and 2/0 and see which ones you can make look the best without driving yourself crazy to do it, I bet the winner won't be Gossamer.
john

Re: Guide wrap air pockets

feeds@yuku.com (dorenac) — Wed, 30 Jul 2008 06:42:52 GMT

John mentions "ditch the Gossamer, it's more trouble than it's worth." Please elaborate, how is silk diameter going to matter?
Thanks,
Rich

Re: Guide wrap air pockets

feeds@yuku.com (Zenkoanhead) — Tue, 29 Jul 2008 23:35:23 GMT

Any thoughts on those dark streaks that sometimes run along the guide feet? Are those air pockets? John, these days I apply my varnish with a thin bladed plastic spatula. Easier to use than a finger for removing excess varnish. Don

Re: Guide wrap air pockets

feeds@yuku.com (john channer) — Mon, 28 Jul 2008 23:08:12 GMT

3 things will help. 1- ditch the Gossamer, it's more trouble than it's worth. 3/0 will work better and be easier to wrap, 2/0 is better yet. 2- pull the tags all the way thru along the guide feet, this helps fill the void and provides a wick to pull and hold your finish in the cavity. 3- apply the first coat generously, let it sit for a while, I wrap all the guides first, then finish all of them and go back to the beginning when I'm done and wipe off the excess with my finger,...

Re: Guide wrap air pockets

feeds@yuku.com (kimk) — Mon, 28 Jul 2008 19:32:32 GMT

I use only Man-O-War. The first three coats are cut 50/50 w/ turpentine and another two or three coats are cut with 10% turpentine. Then I dip. All coats are put on with a dubbing needle and worked into the thread. It seems like a lot of work and I suppose it is but it beats all heck out rewrapping even a single guide.
AgMD

Re: Guide wrap air pockets

feeds@yuku.com (shuksanrods) — Mon, 28 Jul 2008 16:08:46 GMT

what has worked for me as someone who uses only a varnish on the wraps, is to thin it considerably on the first couple coats over the wrap.

Re: Guide wrap air pockets

feeds@yuku.com (stephen kiley) — Mon, 28 Jul 2008 11:48:33 GMT

i use flex coat light. 1 part resin 1 part hardiner.mix 2 min. then add 1 part DNA mix 2min. i apply with a turner going from the foot to the guide, put on a littel thick .let turn about 15 min then wipe off. let turn over night and weight 2 days or more to put what ever finish you want over it. when you wipe it off you will see the tooth of the thread so additional coats will have some thing to grab on to.any thread ends or fuzzes can be cut off with a razor blade. hope this helps steve

Guide wrap air pockets

feeds@yuku.com (dorenac) — Sun, 27 Jul 2008 17:48:26 GMT

Surely this has been discussed before, but I haven't found relevant information, so I 'll bring it up again. As the title says, I have problems with air pockets, shimmers, whatever you want to call them when wrapping guides. On colored wraps they don't seem to show up too badly but with white silk(Pearsall's Gossamer) a bubble or two always seems to show up. I've tried heating the silk and varnish, played with various tensions, and have resorted ,most recently, to...