Hollowbuilt versus solid built rods

Re: Hollowbuilt versus solid built rods

feeds@yuku.com (bobbeegee) — Fri, 30 Jan 2009 19:03:09 GMT

Well Jeremy, I'm still amazed at the sometimes passionate responses this thread seems to have generated.
I'm also glad that it seems to have stimulated a few to maybe re-think how they view hollowbuilt rods?

It was, in my opinion, a very simple question that somehow "got lost in translation?"

As previously stated, "if you can not live and fish without a hollowbuilt, and it totally trips your trigger, then fish on with 'em my brother!!"...

Re: Hollowbuilt versus solid built rods

feeds@yuku.com (thegubster) — Fri, 30 Jan 2009 09:00:49 GMT

creakycane wrote:
I was PM'd by a board member who argues that the loss of bamboo feel in hollowbuilt rods comes from the loss of mass throughout the rod - his words were along the lines that the "rod casts itself nature" of many well designed cane tapers loses something when hollowed, since mass is lost through the rod and thus the same momentum transfer to the line requires a faster stroke (too fast, is his...

Re: Hollowbuilt versus solid built rods

feeds@yuku.com (bob2935) — Thu, 29 Jan 2009 23:32:37 GMT

Hi Larry I'm afraid noone in my field would believe me. It's a wacky but fun group.

Bob

Re: Hollowbuilt versus solid built rods

feeds@yuku.com (Larry Swearingen) — Thu, 29 Jan 2009 09:30:15 GMT

So Bob2939,
Are you taking notes on this group then ?
Please be sure to give individual credit if using
any of us as subjects in future professional papers.
OK, you can use handles and not real names if
yer afraid of legal actions.

Larry Swearingen
New Hoosier

Re: Hollowbuilt versus solid built rods

feeds@yuku.com (bob2935) — Thu, 29 Jan 2009 00:09:56 GMT

I work in the mental health field and I am getting some major staff meeting flashbacks right now. Over analyzing and over processing is the nature of people in my field. In one staff meeting I blurted out " I expect you guys to be processing your bowel movements at any second". What I am getting at is that this topic is exhausting. Remember keep it simple and do not wallow in theory. Obviously we all like different tapers and styles of rods. We all have different casting styles...

Re: Hollowbuilt versus solid built rods

feeds@yuku.com (creakycane) — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 20:06:24 GMT

Thanks 16 PMD - I agree, it seems you can keep the sweetness (if hollowed carefully and the internal taper is optimized) and improve responsiveness, especially in those over 8' 4 and 5 wts. Thanks for your thoughts!

Re: Hollowbuilt versus solid built rods

feeds@yuku.com (16 pmd) — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 17:27:31 GMT

As a big fan of hollow rods, I see your point and sort of agree with it. I think hollowing improves the PERFORMANCE of a rod, but I can see that it can lessen that sweet self-loading feel that some solid rods have. They have that nice, subtle swing from the butt that makes them feel like they cast themselves. It's analagous to the big luxury car that has the nice smooth ride, but may not corner or accelerate as well as a higher performance car with stiffer suspension. You trade off some...

Re: Hollowbuilt versus solid built rods

feeds@yuku.com (creakycane) — Tue, 27 Jan 2009 16:49:38 GMT

I was PM'd by a board member who argues that the loss of bamboo feel in hollowbuilt rods comes from the loss of mass throughout the rod - his words were along the lines that the "rod casts itself nature" of many well designed cane tapers loses something when hollowed, since mass is lost through the rod and thus the same momentum transfer to the line requires a faster stroke (too fast, is his argument) - this is certainly true (I think) in graphite rods, if I am getting my...

Re: Hollowbuilt versus solid built rods

feeds@yuku.com (Hollowbuilt) — Mon, 26 Jan 2009 09:39:33 GMT

Hi Bobby,
I don't think you could just pick up a built rod and state one way or another whether it was hollowbuilt. Aluminum seat vs. nickel silver vs. type of wood spacer....Super swiss, SD, truncated, or micro ferrules...it all changes the weight of the finished rod.

Casting it would be another story, if the rod was done right.

Removing mass from the rod makes it start faster/easier and stop faster/easier. The rod can dampen quicker. Means less line bounce....

Re: Hollowbuilt versus solid built rods

feeds@yuku.com (cwood) — Mon, 26 Jan 2009 07:36:11 GMT

I agree. It reminds me of a similar "argument" I get in with some of my plastic rod fishing friends..........

"By god there is no way I'm fishing one of those expensive wood rods until you explain to me exactly why they are better than graphite, and I mean I need to know the exact scientific information that explains to me in a robust manner how they are significantly better, and I don't want to hear the fru fru crap about them being pretty and historical....

Re: Hollowbuilt versus solid built rods

feeds@yuku.com (AJ Bamboo) — Mon, 26 Jan 2009 03:59:11 GMT

this is starting to remind me of a Monty Python skit..... and i think you know which one i mean...
i will engage in argument but not simple contradiction
bye
aj

Re: Hollowbuilt versus solid built rods

feeds@yuku.com (bobbeegee) — Sun, 25 Jan 2009 19:34:29 GMT

If a hollow built rod somehow makes that much difference to you, then please buy and fish the heck out of it.
I just can not see the advantage it offers over a solid built rod. If you want a 4 weight in a certain length then buy a HB 4 weight if that's the design rod you prefer. In my opinion, some builders solid built 4 weights would offer you the same performance, if not, then drop down to a 3 weight solid built. Whatever!

My simple question was.........if someone handed...

Re: Hollowbuilt versus solid built rods

feeds@yuku.com (David Dornblaser) — Sun, 25 Jan 2009 18:52:30 GMT

Mountains,

Thank you for your input. Your side-by-side comparison is informative and is appreciated.

- David

Re: Hollowbuilt versus solid built rods

feeds@yuku.com (MountainsAllAround) — Sun, 25 Jan 2009 15:01:15 GMT

I admit to being confused a little by the reception (including the half-dozen outside communications); the concept of a side-by-side comparison was at the genesis of this thread.

Having added that to this discussion, I think I'll bow out.

Re: Hollowbuilt versus solid built rods

feeds@yuku.com (David Dornblaser) — Sun, 25 Jan 2009 13:10:52 GMT

Bill,

Yes, it makes sense. And, I assume that is why some tapers take to hollow-building, while others do not; and, why hollow-builders often tweak tapers or design their own.

Creakycane, yes, I have half a dozen, or so, hollow-built rods with a few more on the way.

- David

Re: Hollowbuilt versus solid built rods

feeds@yuku.com (cwood) — Sun, 25 Jan 2009 08:01:27 GMT

I'm not sure why MountainsAllAround's example wouldn't be a suitable comparison. He sounds like he's buddies with Chris Raine and said he cast two rods identical to each other minus the hollowing. He said he noticed a difference. What's the confusion? Someone asked if anyone had cast two identical tapers from the same maker, one solid and one hollow, someone gives an example of that exact situation and relays their perceived results, and then folks say that...

Re: Hollowbuilt versus solid built rods

feeds@yuku.com (bobbeegee) — Sun, 25 Jan 2009 00:19:22 GMT

If I wanted a 8' 3 piece 4 wt., I would just buy one of those rods, solid built, instead of a 8' 3 piece 5 wt. solid built.

bob

Re: Hollowbuilt versus solid built rods

feeds@yuku.com (creakycane) — Sat, 24 Jan 2009 23:38:39 GMT

oysterbamboo wrote:

David Dornblaser wrote:

creakycane wrote:

I'm not sure that is the most relevant comparison -I would think that when a maker offers, for example, as 8' 3pc 5 wt in both hollow and solid versions, that the oustside taper of the rod is NOT necessarily the...

Re: Hollowbuilt versus solid built rods

feeds@yuku.com (oysterbamboo) — Sat, 24 Jan 2009 22:53:55 GMT

David Dornblaser wrote:

creakycane wrote:

I'm not sure that is the most relevant comparison -I would think that when a maker offers, for example, as 8' 3pc 5 wt in both hollow and solid versions, that the oustside taper of the rod is NOT necessarily the same in both cases.....

Is that true? Why would the...

Re: Hollowbuilt versus solid built rods

feeds@yuku.com (MountainsAllAround) — Sat, 24 Jan 2009 22:37:32 GMT

In the context of this discussion, I think comparing two "identical" rods (save the hollowing) is the perfect way to illustrate the effect of hollowing, though your mileage may vary based on the sophistication of the methods used to hollow a rod.

And without giving away a lot (partly because I don't understand it, I just watch him do it), but I've watched Raine muck around with the internal taper more than the outside taper,...

Hollowbuilt versus solid built rods

feeds@yuku.com (bobbeegee) — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 20:05:40 GMT

Not being a bamboo rod maker, and never having cast a hollowbuilt rod, I have an angler laymans question for the builders and fishers of hollowbuilt rods.

If someone put a hollowbuilt rod in my hand, not telling me it was a hollowbuilt, and said "try this one", could I truly feel that the rod was somehow different from my solid built rod? Could anyone pick up the same rod and state emphatically "that's a great HB rod" without knowing it was?
I guess my...