Adjusting a taper back to step down ferrules?

Re: Adjusting a taper back to step down ferrules?

feeds@yuku.com (Lee Koch) — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 22:20:51 GMT

This thread has gotten off track from the original intent, but given that it has already done so, I'll take it a little farther afield:

Here are some photos of Dickerson ferrules:
Female 8012:

8012 male ferrules:

661510 males ferrules:

...

Re: Adjusting a taper back to step down ferrules?

feeds@yuku.com (HexaMaineiac) — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 17:45:36 GMT

Compared to a size 15 Super Z ferrule that I have on a rod, this female appears to taper less between the body of the ferrule down to the tabs, and the body is about .01 smaller in O.D. than that of the Super Z.. Looking into the ferrules I think that this is milled, but can't be sure. After all, this was offered as a Dickerson reproduction, not a Dickerson, so it might be dimensionally correct but structurally different.
My understanding is that when Dickerson gave a ferrule a size...

Re: Adjusting a taper back to step down ferrules?

feeds@yuku.com (canerodscom) — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 10:03:56 GMT

Thanks Henry,

That sure does have an amazingly similar look to a Super Z style ferrule. The female even appears to be a composite of two pieces of tubing. Of course, I may not be seeing all that is really there.

Harry

Re: Adjusting a taper back to step down ferrules?

feeds@yuku.com (HexaMaineiac) — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 09:49:31 GMT

http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y114/HexaMaineiac/?action=view¤t=Dickersonferrule.jpg

Re: Adjusting a taper back to step down ferrules?

feeds@yuku.com (HexaMaineiac) — Sun, 31 May 2009 21:48:49 GMT

The PM question from Lee Koch was:

Hi Henry! I've got a question about your "Dickerson" 15/14 ferrule as well. I originally posted on this topic, but removed my post because I didn't want to get in over my head... and I knew one of the old guys would answer the question (which hasn't happened yet...) But anyway, can you tell how the ferrule gets to a 14/64 opening on the male? The slide has to be 13/64 ID (15/64 OD) to fit into the female, but then there is...

Re: Adjusting a taper back to step down ferrules?

feeds@yuku.com (canerodscom) — Sun, 31 May 2009 08:00:05 GMT

Henry,

Could you post a picture? Or might you PM me with your source?

Thanks,
Harry

Re: Adjusting a taper back to step down ferrules?

feeds@yuku.com (HexaMaineiac) — Sat, 30 May 2009 17:16:43 GMT

Mind you I've not taken one off of a rod, but I recently purchased a "Dickerson reproduction ferrule" from someone on the rodmakers' list and it is quite different from the CSE step-down ferrules that have two different diameters to the male. This ferrule is a 15/64 on the female side and a 14/64 on the male side. It doesn't bulge out like a Super-Z, but is more like Tony Larson's 13-to-12 stepdown. Haven't decided what rod to put it on. Henry.

Re: Adjusting a taper back to step down ferrules?

feeds@yuku.com (john channer) — Wed, 27 May 2009 23:16:07 GMT

I don't know of any ferrules from "back in the day" that were machined from solid stock, all I've seen or heard of were either made from tubing or drawn from sheet stock. Either way, wall thickness of 1/64th or less was the norm and sizing was pretty much dictated by the tubing. Granger and Phillipson and possibly some others made their ferrules with a true difference between the male and female, but their ferrules were drawn, at least the males were anyway, the females...

Re: Adjusting a taper back to step down ferrules?

feeds@yuku.com (jasonklett) — Wed, 27 May 2009 21:46:19 GMT

I think I finally get it. The ferrules have nothing to do with the action of the rod, it's the step in the taper that affects it. As to the ferrules themselves, I can see how it would be easier to make one from tubing that had the same ID. My question is that if you're making them from bar stock and there is a difference in the bamboo, wouldn't it make sense to match the diameters of the holes to that of the bamboo? I think that it would make for a smoother transition from the...

Re: Adjusting a taper back to step down ferrules?

feeds@yuku.com (rlnunleycom) — Wed, 27 May 2009 09:26:47 GMT

I've had Young rods with Super Z's and with step downs, every Payne I've had in the shop had stepdowns, as did all the Leonards, FE Thomas, etc... I don't think the Catskills shops, for the most part, never moved from Step Downs to Super Z's.

Honestly, as Jerry Foster said, the Step Downs are harder to fit to the cane, but I personally like the cleaner looking more slim lines of the step downs. There are some that claim that the Step Downs are a superior...

Re: Adjusting a taper back to step down ferrules?

feeds@yuku.com (mattcliff) — Tue, 26 May 2009 13:17:51 GMT

Nah, that makes perfect sense. Thanks. Turns out I do understand the basics of ferrules, but should know better than to opine on what sort of ferrules classic rodmakers used (not exactly my strong suit).

Re: Adjusting a taper back to step down ferrules?

feeds@yuku.com (rlnunleycom) — Tue, 26 May 2009 08:35:57 GMT

mattcliff wrote:
I thought I understood this, but clearly I do not. I have fit ferrules in restorations that drop 10-15 thousands across the ferrule, but have been able to accommodate this using what I think of as "standard" step-downs that have the same ID on both sides. Does a drop across the ferrules of roughly always mean a change in ID from mid-section to tip? or can it not be accommodated, as suggested in prior...

Re: Adjusting a taper back to step down ferrules?

feeds@yuku.com (mattcliff) — Mon, 25 May 2009 20:19:42 GMT

Did Dickerson use those? I've never owned a Dickerson, but those who have have told me he used standard step-downs. The only time I've personally come across ferrules designed to fit on different-diameter tip/butt sections was when I acquired some that were made by W&M for early fiberglass rods. But again, I have no personal knowledge of Dickersons, so if anyone knows better I'm happy to stand corrected.

Re: Adjusting a taper back to step down ferrules?

feeds@yuku.com (HexaMaineiac) — Wed, 20 May 2009 22:17:44 GMT

mattcliff wrote: Such ferrules exist, of course, but they're not what decent rodmakers have ever used in most cases.

I believe you're talking about Dickerson's....

Re: Adjusting a taper back to step down ferrules?

feeds@yuku.com (MontyMontana) — Fri, 15 May 2009 18:12:14 GMT

1- piece rods...God Bless Al Talbot and now Bruce Howell....now there are two who really deserve Saint Hood.

Monty Montana

Re: Adjusting a taper back to step down ferrules?

feeds@yuku.com (J W Foster) — Fri, 15 May 2009 10:40:08 GMT

Most of the makers lately have been referring to the old step down ferrules as "stepped ferrules". While the tapers themselves are referred to as step down. The ferrules are the same as super z's as far as sizing goes. Z's are just a little easier to fit. As to which tapers you prefer, that is a personal matter, unless you believe "one size fits all".

My rod preferences as a maker are totally irrelevant to anyone else's choice.

Regards
...

Re: Adjusting a taper back to step down ferrules?

feeds@yuku.com (Jim Lowe) — Thu, 14 May 2009 19:30:10 GMT

Thanks Bob. (He says pretending he understood what you said.)

Re: Adjusting a taper back to step down ferrules?

feeds@yuku.com (mattcliff) — Thu, 14 May 2009 11:38:37 GMT

Just wanted to say thanks to Bob for clearing up what is one of the major sources of confusion and mis-information for people new to rod-making -- i.e., the definition of "step-down" ferrules. So many people always assume that step-down means that the hole for the bamboo on the male side must be 1/64 smaller than the hole for the bamboo on the female side. Such ferrules exist, of course, but they're not what decent rodmakers have ever used in most cases.

It's...

Re: Adjusting a taper back to step down ferrules?

feeds@yuku.com (jasonklett) — Fri, 08 May 2009 23:36:59 GMT

OK, that sort of makes sense to me. So if the bamboo is 1/64" smaller on the tip side then it would be a true stepdown whereas if the dimensions are closer than that it would be a modern stepdown? I take it that if the female is a consistent ID on both ends then it would be called a stepdown regardless of the tab ID on the male?

If that's the case then how would using a swiss style ferrule change the action if the modern stepdown has the same size bamboo going in? Is it the...

Re: Adjusting a taper back to step down ferrules?

feeds@yuku.com (rlnunleycom) — Fri, 08 May 2009 08:29:10 GMT

Jason,
"Step Down" is really a much too broadly used term to call ferrules. It's used to describe the ferrules that a lot of contemporary makers use as being a ferrule where the tab female body is the same dimension as the male body (that happens a lot here in Arkansas too ) and the male slide is smaller by 1/32nd. That is the "step down"... the step down in dimension of the...

Adjusting a taper back to step down ferrules?

feeds@yuku.com (jasonklett) — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 23:00:40 GMT

Does anyone have any ideas on how to go about adjusting a published taper that was "smoothed out" to use swiss ferrules back to using step downs(IE Paynes and Dickersons and the like)? I have been messing around with a few different programs but no matter what I try I always wind up with a bit of a soft spot in the stress curve right up to the male. Should I go higher up the blank in my adjusting to accomodate the smaller ferrule or do most tapers deigned for step downs spike before...