Leader length?

Re: Leader length?

feeds@yuku.com (Cane Head) — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 00:38:28 GMT

I shied away from store bought knotless leaders years ago, but if you spend anytime on the Missouri during summer time you learn to appreciate the benefits of a knotless leader. It's a virtual floating salad bowl and every knot in a handtied will catch the greens. Furled and braided butts get equally slimed. In order to deal with the conditions I learned to modify the tapered mono to fit my needs. No one leader does it all so it helps to have a variety at your disposal.

Cane

Re: Leader length?

feeds@yuku.com (freestoner) — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 16:33:38 GMT

I nail-knot Amnesia chartreuse green for my leader butt section- a different diameter depending on the line size. Amnesia is stiff, but not wire-stiff; it turns over well for me when used with plastic fly lines. Then I tie a perfection loop in it. Then I use the Fishpond leader gauge on a Rio knotless leader, to find the appropriate place to snip off the butt section length that I no longer want to use, loop the cut end, and use a loop to loop connection toward the butt. If necessary, I tie...

Re: Leader length?

feeds@yuku.com (ibookje) — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 12:22:26 GMT

My setup is pretty simple:

7,5 ft leader, 4x tip
I cut off about a foot of the tip and tie a small perfection loop. I extend this with 4x or 5x, usually about 3-4ft long.

Re: Leader length?

feeds@yuku.com (Battenkiller) — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 12:06:42 GMT

I tie my own, always have. Maxima Chameleon at the butt, limp mono at the terminus. I used to try all types of tapers since I thought it would make a difference, but as I got to be a better caster, I learned that it is more important to modify my casting stroke for the cast at hand. All those years of sitting by the fire tying leaders while waiting for the coffee to finish perking weren't for naught, though. I can tie a 5-6 turn blood knot in 30 seconds. This is a skill that became...

Re: Leader length?

feeds@yuku.com (jbenenson) — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 09:34:01 GMT

bswild, there really is no such thing as a knotless leader after you've fished long enough to replace the tippet. I think that knotless leaders are manufactured to save on time and labor. I also don't think that it makes much difference what one uses. The fish don't care so it's up to the individual angler's preferences.

Re: Leader length?

feeds@yuku.com (nationalbar) — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 08:44:42 GMT

I've used the Harvey leader for a while as well, it works great for its intended purpose, but there's more than one way to skin a cat. (Apologies to cat lovers)
Mike Lawson's book on Spring Creeks recommends a modified knotless leader that I've used with good success for a couple of seasons now and eliminates the ubiquitous .021 or .022 butts on knotless leaders.
Starting with a 9ft knotless leader ( I use SA), and using a leader gauge, measure the butt down to where...

Re: Leader length?

feeds@yuku.com (bswild) — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 23:37:00 GMT

I wish I could find a knotless leader I could live with. But I can't. I tie my own, because of it. But it IS kind of a hair-shirt. I hate lugging around all that mono, rebuilding leaders, etc. Yeah, I've tried the furled, and didn't care for them. I've tried every knotless leader. But the butts are too fat for my 4-weight, which likes 0.19 or 0.17. No leader is perfect. But I wish I was like some of the fishermen I know: they tie on a knotless, add a little tippet, and...

Re: Leader length?

feeds@yuku.com (Eric Peper) — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 09:19:25 GMT

Something I've started doing on my lines (almost all 4s and 5s) that don't have a manufactured loop in the end is to take a 10-12 inch section from a store bought leader I like and needle knot this to the end of the line, retaining the Perfection loop that was on the original leader. Then I add an identical tapered leader to the short section by loop-to-loop. I add my tippets as Cane Head describes above except that I clinch knot the tippet to the loop I tie in the end of the...

Re: Leader length?

feeds@yuku.com (kimk) — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 20:46:59 GMT

When the season starts, and fishing is streamers, wets and nymphs, I use store bought 7 1/2 foot leaders 3X. I have learned to guestimate trim the butts to match the various lines I fish. I have almost gotten good at it too. I buy all my leaders at 3X and tie another 12 -- 14 inches of 3X on to that. Tippets down to 5x are added depending on hook size and water clarity and speed.
When the rivers start to drop and the water becomes clear I use hand tied leaders that I have developed for...

Re: Leader length?

feeds@yuku.com (mer) — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 17:45:45 GMT

I think we're "saying the same thing only different" here. Variations on a theme. All opinions on what works for us. Sitting on the bank building leaders is a good thing to do when you need to waste time until the hatch.

Re: Leader length?

feeds@yuku.com (Cane Head) — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 17:11:54 GMT

Mer - Those diameters I listed approach the flexibility of the given line weights. Different brands of butt material have somewhat different flexibility with usually Maxima and Mason being about the most stiff. But usually more than not those diameters have about the same flexibility as the end of the fly line. Furled leaders are a bit different in that they have a high amount of flexibility since they aren't built with thick diameter butt material, but rather small diameter material....

Re: Leader length?

feeds@yuku.com (mer) — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 12:29:26 GMT

DG: yes, the same leader setup I use probably does turn over a little differently on my 4s vs heavier, but not enough to make me want to optimize anything (maybe I don't even feel it). I think it all goes back to the relative flexibility of the leader butt vs the end of the fly line; all the furled leaders commercially available are made for a range of line weights "in one leader". Take the Bluesky ones: a Light one is to be used on 3 to 5 wt lines. Same leader, different line...

Re: Leader length?

feeds@yuku.com (Doublegun) — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 10:23:59 GMT

Thanks, all. This is exactly the type of help I was hoping for. I had never considered the diameter of the butt section but that does make some sense. I have to think a 9-1/2' 5x would turn differently on a 6-wt vs. a 4-wt. Right now I have been using hand-tied leaders made of Maxima cameleon (sp?) with the tippet being clear Maxima amd I carry spools of clear tippet material for replacing the tippit when necessary. It is a pretty good and traditional system and works fine, but I...

Re: Leader length?

feeds@yuku.com (BlackHillsBill) — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 09:00:27 GMT

mer wrote:
. . . based on what seems to work good enough for me, because I'd rather be fishing than rebuilding leaders on the stream.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
So, basically I seem to be using a 9 to 12 foot leader for pretty much all line...

Re: Leader length?

feeds@yuku.com (pvansch1) — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 07:36:36 GMT

The majority of my trout fishing the past couple of years has been with an 8' 5wt.
For a leader I buy Climax 9' 5x and use it until it's out of tippet (about 5.5'-6' of leader left). Then tie a loop.
I add either 4x or 5x to get back to 9' when it gets cut back close to the loop, remove that and add another.
I dont' find any disadvantage to the loop (no hinging) Like MER I like to keep the flies on the water. syste mis quick for me for adding tippet...

Re: Leader length?

feeds@yuku.com (mer) — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 06:44:00 GMT

Keep in mind all I'm go to say here is my opinion, based on what seems to work good enough for me, because I'd rather be fishing than rebuilding leaders on the stream.

I'm going to moderately disagree with Canehead in his matching leader butt to line weight; I found that matching the leader butt to the line based on relative flexibility works better for me. If you look at the diameter of a furled leader at the end that attaches to the fly line, I'd bet that they...

Re: Leader length?

feeds@yuku.com (16 pmd) — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 02:23:13 GMT

I agree with Cane Head - match the leader length to the water and the wariness of the fish, not the length of the rod. Try to use as short a leader as the fish will let you get away with. A handy and easy technique is to carry a spool of leader butt material with you. If you need a longer leader, just add the apppropriate amount of butt material to the butt by knotting it into the existing butt section. I think you will find that it doesn't affect the turnover as much as trying to extend...

Re: Leader length?

feeds@yuku.com (WatercolorMan) — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 01:05:21 GMT

There are no rules. I customize my setup, it depends on how close your fishing and on what rivers. I go from 5' and up on my 7' rod. I go up to 18' on a 7'9" rod.
I think some just use what comes pre packaged because its so easy to go that way. Or maybe we are all nuts and just like to do it our own way. I for one am not to good at following the crowd. I look for what works best for any giver condition.

Re: Leader length?

feeds@yuku.com (Cane Head) — Mon, 22 Jun 2009 01:01:44 GMT

I don't think there are general rules concerning matching leader length to rod length. I tend to match leader length to water size and how wary the fish are. On big waters like the Missouri while I am using a 7 1/2' to 8 1/2' cane, my leaders tend to run from 9' to 12'. On small streams I use a 6 1/2' or 7' 4wt rod and a 7 1/2' leader. Wary fish have me using long leaders while eager fish on small streams have me using a shorter one.

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Leader length?

feeds@yuku.com (Doublegun) — Sun, 21 Jun 2009 22:12:49 GMT

What are the general rules for length of leaders for fishing cane rods? I seem to be stuck on 9-1/2' leaders for just about everthing which may not be the most practical or best thing to do. Suggestions? I am fishing 6'6", 7'2', 7'6" and 8' rods. (I try to stick to 7-1/2' leaders for the 6'6" rod).