Empire "Pilot" Tackle Co. 2/2 7 1/2' W&M Trade Rod?

Re: Empire "Pilot" Tackle Co. 2/2 7 1/2' W&M Trade Rod?

feeds@yuku.com (OldCanerods) — Thu, 09 Jul 2009 10:53:52 GMT

I pulled out my own 7' Empire (2/1). It is varnished not impregnated. Mine is labeled as EMPIRE "NYMPH" TACKLE (reads from tip toward seat) and has all black wraps with the extended spiral from main wrap out to a solid end of about 6 - 8 turns. There's a spiral mid section wrap on the butt section like the above rod too. It does not appear to have been refinished. Hookkeeper is a snake guide and there is a snake plus striper guide on the butt section. Reelseat is downlock...

Re: Empire "Pilot" Tackle Co. 2/2 7 1/2' W&M Trade Rod?

feeds@yuku.com (PaducahMichael) — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 18:58:46 GMT

Yes, that does indeed appear to be a SB 290. The odd green wraps are understandable - it was nearly impossible to find the proper B/O Jasper thread for a long, long time - and then again, maybe the rod's owner at that time just happened to like green wraps.

Re: Empire "Pilot" Tackle Co. 2/2 7 1/2' W&M Trade Rod?

feeds@yuku.com (stickleyboy) — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:39:12 GMT

I think my rod is likely a South Bend 290. Compare my female ferrule and tip tops to the 290 below.

That looks pretty close to me. But what about the impregnated issue?? I'd say, probably, impregnated...

Re: Empire "Pilot" Tackle Co. 2/2 7 1/2' W&M Trade Rod?

feeds@yuku.com (jz2) — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 21:43:37 GMT

Hey Michael.
when you get that granger with the split female ferrule would it be possible to cut it lengthwise to see how the ferrule was formed? the welt certainly looks machined under high magnification. (15x) but I'm not a metalurgical expert. Could they have rolled it like a SB type ferrule, then machined or stamped it?

Re: Empire "Pilot" Tackle Co. 2/2 7 1/2' W&M Trade Rod?

feeds@yuku.com (stickleyboy) — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 19:36:14 GMT

Thanks for clearing things up, Michael. Your story makes sense. And I do promise to never say Granger trade rod.

best, Jim

Re: Empire "Pilot" Tackle Co. 2/2 7 1/2' W&M Trade Rod?

feeds@yuku.com (PaducahMichael) — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:24:02 GMT

As stated by Jay, I believe all Granger and Phillipson ferrules were a type of rolled welt. The shape of Granger and Phillipson ferrules IS suggestive of a separate welt, but I'm sure they were drawn from a single piece of NS and did not have "hand-soldered welts". I'm not familiar enough with machining processes to know exactly HOW the welts were "rolled".

While we're on the topic of Empire rods, the reason the Empire rods

feeds@yuku.com (bluejayee) — Thu, 02 Jul 2009 04:00:43 GMT

Hi Guys, All Phillipson/Granger ferrules were 'rolled welt.' Jay Edwards

Re: Empire "Pilot" Tackle Co. 2/2 7 1/2' W&M Trade Rod?

feeds@yuku.com (2 Bead Pupa) — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 21:01:10 GMT

Jim , I've posted in one of mentioned threads, and here's what I know : My rod has the same decal style as yours but only " WESTKILL " TACKLE are left. After seeing yours, I'd say that mine used to have EMPIRE before the " WESTKILL " . Your cork grip looks just like mine as do your ferrules and hookeeper. The seat on mine is way different in that it's a downlocking screw type with a black plastic spacer. The hookeeper on mine is a snake guide and the wraps...

Re: Empire "Pilot" Tackle Co. 2/2 7 1/2' W&M Trade Rod?

feeds@yuku.com (stickleyboy) — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 13:57:06 GMT

Here's the signature. Compare it to the other Empire tackle company rods on the Board: http://clarksclassicflyrodforum.yuku.com/reply/136278#reply-136278. When these rods were listed no one actually took up the issue of whether they could actually be the lost granger trade rods referred to in Colorado Classic Cane. Anyone care to weigh in on that issue? Does the lack of granger...

Re: Empire "Pilot" Tackle Co. 2/2 7 1/2' W&M Trade Rod?

feeds@yuku.com (OldCanerods) — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 08:30:08 GMT

Or maybe a H-I rod? They did impreg's rods and white shaft writing was their norm.

Re: Empire "Pilot" Tackle Co. 2/2 7 1/2' W&M Trade Rod?

feeds@yuku.com (TheMontyMan) — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 01:29:43 GMT

The reel seat looks like a South Bend style to me. I'd guess it was re-wrapped. The primary tell is the snake guide added as a hook keeper. A lot of rebuilders use snake guides for a hook keeper. I've never seen an original production rod this way. Can you show us a picture or two of the labeling??

. . . Rex

feeds@yuku.com (Umpqua Beaver) — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 00:37:57 GMT

I've always thought the Empire's to be South Bend trade rods, but I don't know if they did any impregnating or not. My sometimes faulty memory tells me that Campbell attributed those rods to South Bend.

Re: Empire "Pilot" Tackle Co. 2/2 7 1/2' W&M Trade Rod?

feeds@yuku.com (darrelll) — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 06:55:58 GMT

There's ZERO chance it was made by Granger or WM. The windings look like a Japanese rod, however, there seems to be quite a lot of wear on the tip tops which means either they were replaced with used tip tops or it might be a rare Japanese rod that could be actually fishable. The butt ferrule looks like it was replaced with a Monty type ferrule. Did you get your money's worth? I dunno, cast it, fish it and if you like it the answer is probably yes, if the rod breaks on your first hook...

Empire "Pilot" Tackle Co. 2/2 7 1/2' W&M Trade Rod?

feeds@yuku.com (stickleyboy) — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 23:03:43 GMT

I just picked this rod up on the bay. It's a 7 1/2' 2/2 "Pilot" from Empire Tackle Co. The remnant of a sticker on the handle says it's impregnated. The rod weighs 5.1 oz with one tip & 5.3 oz with the other tip. References to Empire Tackle Co. are scarce on the Forum. There have been a couple discussions of an Empire Westkill (see: