What am I getting myself into?

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Triocd	What am I getting myself into?		Lead	[-]
Posts: 1 09/14/2008 11:50	Tags : None I have a good deal of experience fly fishing and tying, but I'm now on this kick to build my own bamboo rod. I've never even fished bamboo, but I have a fascination with the "old ways" of most anything, and bamboo hits the nail on the head. There are a few problems though. First, I have no tools whatsoever. I also have practically no woodworking skills. Worst of all, I don't know anybody that could show me tips and tricks along the way. What I do have, though, is time and patience. I know the road to learning building will be rocky, but I'm patient and enjoy working through difficult tasks. I also have some access to basic tools, such as a planer, saws, sanders, etc because my father in law has a bunch of stuff he could loan me. Also, my wife's employer has other tools which could suffice for a while that I could borrow each night (micrometer, depth gauge, various heating tools). I'm curious as to the amount of money I would have to invest up front to get the ball rolling. Bear in mind, I would start out doing things the cheap way as much as possible (ie no rod wrapping machine, no fancy rod oven, etc.). The first rod or few would be a trial to see how it goes, and I would obviously invest more in specific tools along the way if I'm in for the long haul. I think I would need to BUY the following: all the bamboo, threading, varnish, glue, guides, etc involved in a rod sharpening stones (have no idea how much $ here) vice planing forms (4-500 bucks I guess) iron rod tube for heating Anything else? I guess I'm looking for a bare-bones estimate of how much I would need to invest in starting the process. Also curious if I could eventually recoup some costs through selling some rods for cheap money, just to offset some of the cost of the tools. Really I'm just looking for a satisfying hobby to fill my time over the years (I'm 28) and rodbuilding seems appealing. Please add any thoughts of comments to all of my rambling. Thanks, Greg (Cambridge, MA)
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pvansch1		#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3933 09/14/2008 15:48 Moderator	There is a simpler solution. Take a class, many rodmakers offer a class in making a bamboo fly rod from splitting the bamboo to ferruling it. Time permitting getting a finish on the rod. Post where you are located and if somone offers a class they will speak up. Classes run about $1000 and last about a week. Pete Fishing in the rain!
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john channer		#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 642 09/14/2008 23:45	Over the entrance to the realm of bamboo rodmaking should be a sign that says ' Abandon Hope of Ever Having Any Money Again All Ye Who Enter Here". My apologies to Dante john
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BigTJ		#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 510 09/15/2008 01:16	To get started, all you need are (you don't need metal planing forms to get started!!): Wood roughing forms (make them, or you can buy them for about $75) A heat gun A Stanely 9.5 block plane and Hock blade, or Lie Nelsen (more expensive) Some cane (Starter pack from Golden Witch for $60, or better yet find a maker close by and get some scraps) Some 16/4 cotton thread (for binding rough strips and binding by hand) A small vise Misc. files 4" abs tube for soaking your strips in (I recommend you try soaking before straightening...way easier, also much easier to rough plane wet strips) 3" steel pipe, a couple dial thermometers, propane torch, and metal clothes hangers (for making a cheap oven) A can of Urac For somewhere between $200 and $400 this set of tools would get you all the way to final planing. If you get that far and don't want to quit (straightening, splitting, and roughing really is the hardest part!) , then buy a set of metal planing forms for about $400-$750. I don't think you'll consider quitting though. My guess is that about a couple hours into rough planing those strips you will be hopelessly hooked. You can get by without a lathe, but it's one piece of equipment that really makes rod making a lot easier. Plus, you can make things with a lathe you can use for making rods. Down the road one of the first specialized pieces of equipment you will want is a lathe. Some day you'll need to budget about $500-$1,000 for something used with lots of tooling. If you can get access to a small lathe, even better. All I can say is you really should go for it. I have pretty much gotten rid of 75% of my graphite rods (except my 2-handers), and I don't miss 'em a bit. Tonight I was fishing my home river with a 7' 4 wt cane rod and was hooking some feisty little browns on dries, watching the full moon come up all alone on the river except my "fishing partner" Sammi (my dog). It was just awesome. There just isn't anything like it, especially when fishing a rod you made yourself. You have got to give it a go, you won't regret it!
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aparramoure		#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1481 09/15/2008 12:38	I will be HONEST with you,,,, you might as well give your heart to god, hug your wife, and kiss your wallet goodbye. If you live to be a hundred,,,,, you won't ever have EVERYTHING YOU WANT AND JUST HAVE TO HAVE for making the bamboo fly rod !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mark my words ............ Now get started gathering up the stuff that BigTJ is talkin' about.
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Triocd		#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2 09/15/2008 16:46	Crap, why do all my hobbies have to be expensive ones... Thanks for the pared-down list of tools. I can borrow most of them except for the , tubes, and roughing form. What about sharpening stones? The book I'm reading about working with bamboo obsesses over sharpening your plane religiously. These water stones seem expensive. Can you just replace blades as they wear out? What do you guys do with all the rods you make? Surely you don't keep them all? It's been tough justifying to my wife why I need 5 bikes. I don't know where to begin explaining why I need more than my 2 fly rods.
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Cadnorods		#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 48 09/15/2008 17:09	Don't go with the waterstones...start with scary sharp plate glass & sandpaper method... http://www.taunton.com/fi...working/pages/w00003.asp? ...this article describes all methods but the glass & paper is cheap and very fast...and very very sharp.... Stuart
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Joel Anderson	"GET OUT!!!!"	#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 54 09/15/2008 19:32	...a line borrowed from "Amittyville Horror"...for effect. A little over a year ago I took a class in bamboo rod building, just to satisfy that fantasy (much like yourself, come to think of it). I always wanted a well-made bamboo rod, even though I'd never fished with one, and I figured the class was cheaper than a second-hand cane rod. Sixteen rods later, I still just can't seem to get enough. In all honesty, Yes, it is expensive, at least at the start, but as the ol' man I used to work with used to say, "You gotta do something!" Some guys spend there time and money at the bars, some on snow mobiles, some on expensive boat. This is my boat and the way I see it, each rod I make is worth at least three to four times what I have invested in it monetarily. That more that most can say about other hobbies. There are many satisfying milestones in the fly fishing word: the first fish on a fly; the first trout on a fly; the first fish on a fly you tied yourself; the first trout on a dead-drifted dry fly or nymph, etc. The list is endless and I've experienced most of them. NONE, I repeat, NONE come close to the satisfaction of holding and fishing with a bamboo rod you made yourself. Tonight I took the first lawn cast with a hollow-built Payne 102 that was built for a trip Rangeley next week. The satisfaction of that first cast was priceless and it brought a huge smile to my face. The rod turned out even better than I could have hoped and I found myself giggling like a little girl. Most of us work in jobs where knowledge is our commodity and few of us leave at the end end of the day with something tangible to show for our efforts. Building bamboo rod brings something tangible to my world; something at once both beautiful and amazingly functional. joel
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pvansch1		#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3940 09/15/2008 19:40 Moderator	There are makers in your area, doa google search you will find them. most are willing to let you mill about and ask questions. I'm in Central CT, there are others in CT. Something to watch is Superboo, it's in February and it's in Maine. There are plenty of builders with rods to cast if you are seriously into building you should cast a bunch of rods to find out what types of tapers you like. Pete Fishing in the rain!
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BigTJ		#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 514 09/16/2008 00:17	Holy Cow Joel am I reading that right...16 rods in a little over a year? Do you have a day job? My hat is off to you. Triocd, Scary sharp is a good way to go for sharpening, just be sure to get a totally flat sharpening surface (like a woodworker's granite block or a piece of glass) and some really fine stuff for the final passes, like 2,000 or even 3,000 grit if you can find it. Over the long haul I think that waterstones or diamond stones are cheaper than buying sandpaper esp. the really fine stuff. Plus it's a pain when you run out and forget to get that one grit you really need, and the specialty auto store is the only place in town that carries the cool automotive sandpaper you like is closed on a Sunday (Don't ask me how I know this). Nowadays I use waterstones, and get by with a 550/1,000 combo, a 1,000/6000 combo, and an 8,000. I use the 550/1,000 to lap (flatten) only, and sharpen with the 1,000, 6,000, and 8,000. I use 320 grit sandpaper and scary sharp to hone my bevel back in every so often. You really need the extra lapping stone. If you don't flatten your waterstone every 20 or 30 passes with the plane blade your results wont' be as good as they can be. The tradeoff of waterstones is the short-term expense and keeping your stones flat. Along with a sharpening system you may want to get a sharpening jig. I would stay away from the cheap one that sells for $15. I got one of those, it's great for woodworkers that need to round of the blade corners, but it sucks for bamboo. The best jig I've found is the Veritas Mark II, which sells for about $65 or so. If I were starting over, this would be one of the first things I would buy. Good luck, -John
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marcusw		#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 64 09/16/2008 13:45	I can't match 17 rods but I am upto 16 after a year and a half and love it. I took the $1000 course which was worth every penny and as a result was able to make viable rods immediately - but refining I suspect will be a forever proposition. I made most of my own stuff other than the final planing form which I got used for $500. Otherwise my intial investment was no more $200. However with the cost of components and bamboo I find each rod is costing $160+ to put together (ferrules being a big part of that - no idea how to work a lathe!! wish I did). Ferrules $50+ , Bamboo $30+, Cork $30+, Reel seat $40+, Guides and tiptop $10 etc. BUT it is great fun and I love fishing with my own rods from the 7' 2wt which is brilliant for brookies on our small rivers - to my 9'6" 8wt - that is great for salmon. Now I have to go I have a date with a salmon river tomorrow and still got 4 guides to put on and a silk line due in by courier this afternoon.(I use varathane as a varnish as you can put on 3 or 4 coats in a hour and have it harden enough over night to be fishable - not really hard but definitely fishable - and if it gets a little marked a bit of sanding and more coats when you get home that evening will fix it)
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Triocd		#11	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3 09/16/2008 21:03	I hear you on making something tangible at the end of the day. What are these "hollow built" rods? I've hit all the benchmarks you mentioned except for catching a fish on a rod I made. That will be nice...
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Joel Anderson		#12	[url]	[-]
Posts: 55 09/17/2008 06:25	Hollow-built rods are made by removing a portion of the apex of each strip before gluing. Some do this by flat planing; some do it with a special tool that "flutes" the bamboo, thereby retaining more gluing surface. It requires special attention to detail to make sure too much bamboo is not removed and that the wall thickness remain consistent. It lightens the rod by about 30% while at the same time, it quickens the rod's action a bit. What is removed is mostly pith and bamboo that is not as dense in power fibers as it is on the surface so the strength of the rod is typically not compromised.
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adam trahan		#13	[url]	[-]
Posts: 138 09/21/2008 23:42	Triocd wrote: I have a good deal of experience fly fishing and tying, but I'm now on this kick to build my own bamboo rod. I've never even fished bamboo, but I have a fascination with the "old ways" of most anything, and bamboo hits the nail on the head. There are a few problems though. First, I have no tools whatsoever. I also have practically no woodworking skills. Worst of all, I don't know anybody that could show me tips and tricks along the way. What I do have, though, is time and patience. I know the road to learning building will be rocky, but I'm patient and enjoy working through difficult tasks. I also have some access to basic tools, such as a planer, saws, sanders, etc because my father in law has a bunch of stuff he could loan me. Also, my wife's employer has other tools which could suffice for a while that I could borrow each night (micrometer, depth gauge, various heating tools). I'm curious as to the amount of money I would have to invest up front to get the ball rolling. Bear in mind, I would start out doing things the cheap way as much as possible (ie no rod wrapping machine, no fancy rod oven, etc.). The first rod or few would be a trial to see how it goes, and I would obviously invest more in specific tools along the way if I'm in for the long haul. I think I would need to BUY the following: all the bamboo, threading, varnish, glue, guides, etc involved in a rod sharpening stones (have no idea how much $ here) vice planing forms (4-500 bucks I guess) iron rod tube for heating Anything else? I guess I'm looking for a bare-bones estimate of how much I would need to invest in starting the process. Also curious if I could eventually recoup some costs through selling some rods for cheap money, just to offset some of the cost of the tools. Really I'm just looking for a satisfying hobby to fill my time over the years (I'm 28) and rodbuilding seems appealing. Please add any thoughts of comments to all of my rambling. Thanks, Greg (Cambridge, MA) I looked over the replys, I did not see any that mentioned a book. I did what you are going to do about a year and a half ago and the one guy is write, get ready to always want something more... One of these books will serve you as well as any response you have here. You only need one of these books, I prefer them all Bamboo Rod Building Books There are many books on the subject that you may use as a guide or a recipe of sorts. I think these are good examples that have served the community well. I think every bamboo rod builder should own at least one of these books if not all three. Handcrafting Bamboo Fly Rods by Wayne Cattanach ISBN: 1-59338-837-5 Fundamentals of Building a Bamboo Fly Rod by George E. Maurer and Bernard P. Elser ISBN: 0-88150-570-6 A Master's Guide to Building a Bamboo Fly Rod by Everett Garrison & Hoagy B. Carmichael ISBN: 0-9620609-7-6 There are other books, these are three everyone will endorse. grassart studio
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myxsix	Sharpening	#14	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1 09/22/2008 03:17	I agree stones are not the best way to go. When I first discovered the Scary Sharp method I was definitely impressed. My blades were razor sharp as a result. But, and this is a big but, since I am an amateur violin maker, in addition to a tool junkie, I have about 50 chisels, gouges and plane blades I need to sharpen fairly regularly and I find the Scary Sharp method just takes too long. When I am not "working" and have time to go to my workshop I don't want to waste more time sharpening than working. To that end I have to recommend a sharpener I bought last year called the Worksharp 3000. It is fantastic. It has basically mechanized the scary sharp method so that it takes less than 1 minute to go through the grits and sharpen a blade. I paid about US $200 for it and I think it has to be the best deal going. It uses float glass discs and turns at 500 rpm so it stays cool. It's a lot cheaper than a Tormek and it doesn't need water which always splatters and makes a mess. It's cheap, its solid and its effective. Definitely worth the investment. Last Edited By: myxsix 09/22/2008 03:23. Edited 1 time.
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The Big Bambu		#15	[url]	[-]
Posts: 20 09/24/2008 16:16	Burn baby burn .... I have been asking myself that question every night since opened the doors to my new workshop or should I say Rod shop. I'm into it now for around $3,500. and its the best money I ever spent. I have been down in the shop every night until at least 12:00 splitting strips and rough planing. I thought about taking a class but everyone I have meet has been so helpful and knowledgeable. Not only here on Clark's but at the gatherings as well. My advise is find a maker who has some experience and 9 times out of 10 he will volunteer to guide you along. Try not to take everything he says as gospel. Read everything you can get your hands on and come up with your own procedures and methods. Most of all enjoy your self. I know I am, I haven't felt my creative juices flowing like this since I started tying flies.
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