Cockerel Hackles

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joaniebo	Cockerel Hackles		Lead	[-]
Posts: 1643 10/26/2008 12:57	Tags : None Am tying several of the Leisenring & Hidy nymph and soft hackle patterns and in some of the dressings, it calls for a "cockerel hackle" of various colors / shades. None of the reference books that I have show a picture of an actual cockerel hackle used in fly tying. Since the definition of a cockerel basically means an immature, young male rooster, do I assume that a cockerel hackle used in SHs or nymphs are the softer male poultry hackles? Since I don't have too many soft rooster hackles (actually, just bought two very nice rooster soft hackles in honey and ginger colors), I wonder if using an appropriately colored hen hackle instead of a"darkish-blue cockerel" or a "bright red cockerel" would matter in the authenticity of a dressing? Cheers and Safe Fishing Bob
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rstrouts		#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 35 10/27/2008 02:02	joaniebo wrote: Am tying several of the Leisenring & Hidy nymph and soft hackle patterns and in some of the dressings, it calls for a "cockerel hackle" of various colors / shades. None of the reference books that I have show a picture of an actual cockerel hackle used in fly tying. Since the definition of a cockerel basically means an immature, young male rooster, do I assume that a cockerel hackle used in SHs or nymphs are the softer male poultry hackles? Since I don't have too many soft rooster hackles (actually, just bought two very nice rooster soft hackles in honey and ginger colors), I wonder if using an appropriately colored hen hackle instead of a"darkish-blue cockerel" or a "bright red cockerel" would matter in the authenticity of a dressing? Cheers and Safe Fishing Bob Couple things... You may want to check out flymph.com for All Things flymph and Leisenring. Denny Conrad at conranch.com can tell you about juvenile rooster hackle since he sells juvenile rooster hackle and he may have the colors you need. What passed for cockerel, or juvenile rooster, in the days of Leisenring may be different hackle stiffness from the genetic juvenile rooster hackle of today... Lastly, as you may know, Leisenring used softer game bird hackle for slower flows, hen chickens for medium flow and stiffer rooster for faster flows in his wet flies, so gauge the recipe's material selection accordingly....
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joaniebo		#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1644 10/27/2008 08:35	I have "quite a few" of Conranch's JV Hens .... (I've never seen any JV Rooster hackles on his site) plus probably 50+ other hen skins, some in the colors mentioned in Leisenring & Hidy's book. Although Jim Leisenring did specify different hackle stiffness for various water flows / speeds (".... hackles of stiff fibers for swift, fast water; hackles of medium quality for slower water; and hackles of soft quality for slow water.", in the 2 or 3 L & H dressings that call for cockerel hackles, I make the assumption that different stiffness of "cockerel hackles" would be used for different water flows ... but still wonder what the difference is between a normal rooster hackle and a cockerel rooster hackle. Don't know if I explained this properly but hope so. I wonder if Jim Leisenring simply meant to use a rooster hackle that was softer than a normal rooster dry fly hackle ? Cheers and Safe Fishing Bob
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narcodog		#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 138 10/27/2008 10:02	Bob, I think that if you went to that site I emailed you, you might get your answer. There are several very knowledgeable folks there concerning Flymphs and softies. RK
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rstrouts		#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 36 10/27/2008 14:08	Denny has JV roosters, http://www.conranch.com/specials.html , and may be able to define the difference. An offshoot, former partner of Denny's, at http://www.crbirds.com/ does list JV roosters and may have some info. I have some Hebert Miner Whiting hen necks that seem to be in between, say, chickabou and roosters in relative stiffness so that may be another avenue. Since it's impossible to match the actual non genetic, barnyard cockerel of Leisenring's day unless you go to farmers or, say, some event like the Western Stockman's Show we have here in Denver each year that shows, among other animals, a complete array of chickens, it seems that getting hackle that would satisfy L's recipe for stiffness would be any hackle you judge to match it. Seems like the JV roosters could come pretty doggone close, though. Oh yeh, just thought of Jim Slattery. I believe he started flymph.com and can be found at http://www.jimsflyco.com . Last Edited By: rstrouts 10/27/2008 14:31. Edited 2 times.
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joaniebo		#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1646 10/27/2008 14:44	Bob I did a posting and got some good info and confirmation of what I had been thinking. Thanks for the reminder. Best Bob
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narcodog		#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 139 10/27/2008 15:19	You bet. You will probably get more when Hans gets online.
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