It's been awhile since we've talked about fly shops. A couple of recent posts on other discussion boards mention the demise of some nice ones in
Virginia that had been around for some time. They reminded me that when I left Bellingham, WA 5 1/2 years ago to work overseas there were 4 fly shops in or
within 25 miles of the town and now there are NONE. Perhaps 4 shops in the Bellingham area were a few too many but there's lots of good fishing nearby, a
large resident fly fishing population, and active TU and FFF chapters--surely they could support one fly shop. But it appears not.
Maybe the explosive growth of fly fishing in the last decade or so simply spawned too many shops in the first place and the increasing dominance of the big,
impersonal stores and internet shopping are taking a bigger toll than we think--there are many sound reasons for a small business to fail with or without a
recession so I don't seek a political or economic cause-and-effect discussion here.
I guess this is about nostalgia. I think this has been going on for some time now. I'm just curious to hear how many others have witnessed the
disappearance of their local shop or shops. Is this a national phenomenon? Are the smaller, familiar, friendly and long-standing fly shops slowly disappearing
in all but the hottest destination fishing spots and will we soon remember local fly shops the way we do the Mom and Pop store, the neighborhood butcher and
the Five and Dime?
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My local fly shops---poof, they're gone!
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 Berry Point |
My local fly shops---poof, they're gone! |
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Posts: 384 10/25/2008 02:29 |
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the abandoned brane |
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Posts: 116 10/25/2008 05:22 |
increasing dominance of the big, impersonal stores and internet shopping are taking a bigger toll than we think..... I don't seek a political or economic cause-and-effect discussion here. how about social? I think the character of the flyfisher has changed. it seems to me, back in the old days the flyfisher was of a higher socio-economic class than what we have now. it was kind of an elitist sport. but these days, everyone and their brother flyfishes. most seem just as happy if not happier to wander into gander mountain than a small flyshop. which is odd, many items we buy are fixed price. I can buy a rio leader at gander mountain for $3.95, the same price it will be at a fly shop. also, perhaps some of it is also a disconnection with others around us. when an average person walks into a shop, any shop. the counter person says hello, how do they react? some will start yapping away, others will be a bit put off. I guess this is about nostalgia. I think this has been going on for some time now. I'm just curious to hear how many others have witnessed the disappearance of their local shop or shops. the shop I used to visit when I was kid is long gone. the owner died. it was just a hobby shop anyhow. in my neck of the woods, flyfishing was rare until post-movie. I remember only old timers doing it. I remember struggling on the stream and sometimes they would come over and give me tips. there's a still an old style shop within 50 miles from me, I love that place. I stop in there every now and then, spend way too much money and BS for a while. even most of the new shops lack the feel of the old places. 30, 40 years of stuff piled on top of each other. the new ones seem like I just walked into the fly fishing section at gander mountain. I suspect sometime in the future I will be opening up a shop of my own, as a hobby. a place to go and hang out. it'll keep me off the streets an out of trouble.
Last Edited By: the abandoned brane 10/25/2008 05:26.
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joaniebo |
#2 | |||
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Posts: 1640 10/25/2008 11:03 |
It's not only the "volume (quantity) discounts" but also "purchase (dollar amount) discounts" that cause the pricing / profit problems.
Most / many of the sporting goods companies have price lists (with decreasing price levels) for dealers, then jobbers, then distributors, etc.... plus offer
"advertising / promotional" discounts, catalog page advertising re-imbursements, new store discounts, etc. that a small, Mom & Pop store seldom
ever gets.
Years ago, I purchased a 12 gauge shotgun from a friend who has a dealer license / federal permit. I paid him the exact amount of the invoice he received from the gun manufacturer. Shortly thereafter, I was in a "big box store" and their "regular" (not on sale) price was $20.00 lower than what my friend paid for the shotgun. Cheers and Safe Fishing Bob |
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bobbeegee |
Nostalgic, yes | #3 | ||
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Posts: 2017 10/25/2008 11:27 |
No fisher friendly fly shops left in the Triad area here in North Carolina. If there is one please let me know!
I am most nostalgic for a flyfishing shop that existed in Winston-Salem in the mid-seventies, when I first took up the quiet sport. It was a shop you could drop into and talk fishing, reels, rods, flies, whatever, for hours if you wished. Handle new and used items the owner would take in trade. Have a few flies tied up while you gabbed away. Discuss with others streams you both had fished, or occasionally be invited to fish others secret places. Alas, this shop didn't last two years, even then. Now I can't even remember the owners name, Frank? Sadly nostalgic, yes!! Bob Go Heels!!! |
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Armchair Angler |
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Posts: 125 10/25/2008 13:07 |
I sure miss our local shop. I learned to tie flies there and eventually got to know the owner and his dad. They ran the place together. His father made up
graphite rods and would sometimes be refinishing a bamboo rod and Mark, the owner, would be behind the counter or behind the vise. It was great walking in
there - a comfortable shop with people who knew you when you came in - what a great feeling! I'd buy everything there even if he had to order the item -
just to give him the business He'd at least make some profit. Mark died last year of a rare blood disease just before the age of 50 (or maybe he was 50).
I say, if you have a shop nearby, patronize it and get to know the guys. Those shops and the owners are wonderful to have around. Bob |
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Soft Hackle |
#5 | |||
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Posts: 1128 10/25/2008 14:08 |
The Berkshires in Mass. had an interesting shop that closed a couple years ago as the owner had reached his mid sixties and said business had dropped off so
much that it depressed him to open up every day. The shop was started by his father in 1946 and over the years had sold Heddon and Orvis cane. He was unable to
find a buyer and simply closed the doors. Thinking of it now I realize a new shop could never recreate the ambiance that existed in Rod's store. I remember
the old pine panelling, mounted 24" local brown trout, huge selection of flies( some tied by locals), display case of old blue collar reels ( mostly
Pfluegers), and the rack of used cane rods. Rod, the 2nd generation owner, was a first class fly tyer and a highly skilled machinist. Maybe not Bill
Archuletta, but he could machine parts and repair any reel to get it functioning fine again for a minimal charge. The only thing within 30 miles now is a Dicks
which features bubble wrapped fly reels and a few graphite Eagle Claw rods. There was a very similar shop but closer to me, with an equal dose of ambiance
,complemented by a dazzling display of old side by sides, that closed a few years before Rod's.
I think the era of that style fly shop may be over, largely due to internet shopping and a changing world where large chains rule most markets , especially that of the entry level fly fisherman. It must be depressing to maintain an inventory of tying material, clothing, tackle and such knowing your customers realize they can get it all cheaper from Cabellas. Perhaps things will cycle around again and small shops can reemerge as a desirable alternative to the internet and chain operations. The unique atmosphere inherant in sole proprietorships is a vanishing thing in the American marketplace. It is just so hard for someone to actually make a living in a small shop unless they are in a destination town like Roscoe or West Yellowstone.
Last Edited By: Soft Hackle 10/25/2008 21:15.
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nativebrownie |
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Posts: 542 10/25/2008 16:45 |
Unfortunately, i remember too well the smaller, socially oriented, somehow profitable shops of the 70's - early 80's - particularly the NYC Area
suburbs, Mr. Better's wonderful spot near Wilmington, a beautiful small shop on the Hoosey... or other eastern rivers when I dropped in. It was quiet, you
talked fishing, grabbed a few flies, scanned some used or local rods, and you never gave a thought to shopping elsewhere - even if you saved a few nickles here
and there. It was personal and nice...The loss of these small shops was mirrored in the Tennis market also - by the mid eighties, the small shops were gone.
Local pros stopped stocking rackets and clothes. They told me the customers asked one thing - can you match ( and hopefully beat) the mail order prices?
I feel that it is not just the way things are or a natural evolution that must occur, I feel that we have done ourselves in - we have... I cannot understand how value is now equated now simply with one thing - the lowest price. Value should include many other factors - many that we have now lost sight of and may soon realize the loss... personal connections and a continuity of relationships... I am lucky. I live in one of our teeming east coast cities and i have had the same heating and cooling company (owned by the same family) and have enjoyed the same technician on all calls for ten years now. Yes, and Edie has taken all my calls now for those same years... What a pleasure... We will need a whole new AC set up shortly. I asked for an estimate and they know that I will not even call around, they will get my business. I know, that makes me a fool, right? Not at all... One of the most venerable fly shops in our area closed up after 40 years or so. A great shop, and on the closing weekend, I apologized to the owner for not being a better customer. I was wrong, and only I then knew it. But i must admit that i could sense the 'pressure" in that shop for some ten years now. I was not comfortable with that - I shuddered when some part time help pulled a few of the usual selling tricks to get me to go back and "bite" on a winston that i had handled... To me, this is important stuff... everyday stuff... NB
Last Edited By: nativebrownie 10/25/2008 17:08.
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narcodog |
#7 | |||
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Posts: 137 10/25/2008 17:15 |
There are two shops within 25 0r 30 miles of me that are of the old time shops both are Unicoi Outfitters. You go in sit down and talk fly fishing and they
seem to do a very good business. They are forward looking as they keep adding private waters to their guided waters and the shop managers are both avid fly
fisher men and guides.
Then on the other hand the shop that was closest to me closed up so to speak as the owner started to sell cabin stuff. I really hated to see that happen but the drought has hurt business in this area. There was also a great shop in Waynesville, N.C. that closed last year. I really hated to see hat because he always had some hard to find materials. The complaint I hear is the big box and mail order. When companies such as Orvis start to sell to big box then we know there is trouble headed for the smaller stores. |
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SnooKen |
#8 | |||
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Posts: 731 10/25/2008 18:09 |
The continuing loss of local fly shops and the community/sense of "family" they fostered is indeed lamentable. I think it probable that many of us
come to this site as "the next best thing" to the in person interactions and conversations/friendships we have lost with the changing times.
Ken |
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DrLogik |
#9 | |||
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Posts: 1533 10/25/2008 19:39 |
Bobbeegee,
Great Outdoor Provision Company is there in Raleigh. They should sell fly stuff. Their branch store here in Charlotte sure does. Pretty decent selection for a back-packing store actually. |
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bobbeegee |
#10 | |||
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Posts: 2023 10/25/2008 20:45 |
DrLogik wrote: Thanks Dr. Logik, Yes there's a Great Outdoor Provision Company in Greensboro and I infrequently shop there. You are correct in that they do have a decent selection of fly fishing stuff, but it's rather a up-scale outdoor store as you know. Just not the same as a small one man or family owned shop where you could sometimes wile away an hour or more just talking with the owner or other fisherman about many fly fishing related topics. Bob Go Heels!!! |
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the abandoned brane |
#11 | |||
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Posts: 120 10/26/2008 00:28 |
I was speaking purely on the consumer end. which I was told the prices for many flyfishing goods are price fixed. meaning cabelas cannot charge any less for
their leaders than the local shop.
joaniebo wrote: |
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92Esquire |
#12 | |||
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Posts: 8 10/26/2008 05:17 |
the abandoned brane wrote: True, but then Cabelas makes more from each rod sale than Joe's Fly Shop - sometimes by a significant margin. Sucks to be Joe. We lost our local fly shop this year. I'm still in mourning. When I started fishing, this was the place where I got casting lessons in the parking lot - enough to be able to get a fly out there. I was shown how to tie a Zebra midge there, starting my fly tying. Fridays it was a great place to just go hang out in the chairs up by the window, give the old shop lab a scratch, and complain about the corn fishermen sending the local rivers to heck in a handbasket. I can't ever see looking forward to hanging out in the Bass Pro Shop or Gander Mountain that are now here. |
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mmorris236 |
#13 | |||
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Posts: 218 10/26/2008 14:23 |
We all have nostalgia for that little shop we used to go to. Funny how I remeber a shop in the 70's, some here remember on eion the 60's or even
50's. Other younger folks talk about shops that were her in the 80's and 90's.
Fly shops are just small buisiness'. Like all small buisiness' they are prone to the same rules of consumer supply and demand and to the woes of management. According to the US Bureau of labor statistics on small buisiness' roughly 45% of all small buisiness fail in the first year, 55% by year 5 and 70% by year ten. Fly shops serve a small niche market and may suffer even higher attrition rates. Using this as a guide, even in an area that would support several of these establishments one would expect to see a considerable amount of turnover, older shops closing, new ones opening. Certainly the advent of big box and internet has impacted this equation. Most of the succesful fly shops (more than 10 years old) I have frequentd over the last 15 years had two things in common. First they are very close to, if not right on, a major trout stream, or to the other services that concentrate fisherman like restaurants and motels. Most (actually now that I think about these specific shops, all) have a healthy mail order side and a commercial internet portal. A majority also serve as headquarters for several guiding services, they represent some local lodging and eateries and make themselves into spokesman for the areas they serve, in other words they are multifaceted business' that require some serious business savvy and managerial skill. Now most of us do not live on or very near to this kind of environment. I must drive an hour to fish, maybe more, and I am guessing that this is pretty typical for most of us. Where I live there are many fly fisherman, but most are pretty casual, they visit shops at their destination, usually as much to get hatch info as to actually purchase anything. A shop in my hometown would be dead on arrival. Many of us dream of owning a shop like this, my dream has the additional caveat of first squirelliung enough away in my 401k that my little shop would never need to turn a profit. A wise thought I think because I would probably run it into the ground by being absent while fishing. |
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tight loops |
#14 | |||
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Posts: 233 10/27/2008 11:04 |
I have owned a specialist fly-shop in South Africa for many years now and there's no denying the ever mounting pressures we face as the years roll on.
Thankfully for us, we have built up a solid base of regular customers who we have looked after over the years. Many of these folk migrated to us from the big
general fishing retailers purely because they couldn't come remotely close to the same level of information and passion we offered. Many of these customers
have become friends too and I would say that these days we have more repeat business than new business. I believe there is a place for the specialist fly-shop.
We've always believed that and have taken on the discounters - not on price, but on advice, relevant and well thought out product selection and service,
service, service. It's worked for us for an awfully long time. Just a thought...
Tom |
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Berry Point |
#15 | |||
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Posts: 385 10/27/2008 14:05 |
I've been off forum for a couple of days and just had the chance to read and appreciate the many thoughful replies. I agree with the variety of reasons
offered to explain this trend, but remain saddened to learn that the malaise affects many parts of the country.
I only hope that those of us who still have access to and cherish the special qualities of this vanishing breed of fly shop will continue to do all we can to help the survivors stay in business. Tom's success, I'm sure, is due in no small part to his own hard work and attention to his client's needs, but the symbiosis that allows his and others like him to stay in business depends equally on us. Cheers and tight lines |
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ZenCane |
#16 | |||
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Posts: 94 10/27/2008 15:59 |
My "Local" fly shop is 250 miles away. I live in the UP of Michigan (remember, that's the place where Cloozoe tried to bamboozle us into
believing he had visited a while back), where we have almost nothing. However, the place I learned to fish is on the AuSable. It has all the attributes of the
venerable fly shops I see mourned so movingly here. However, it also has a terrific advantage - diversity. The place, (shameless plug for my favorite place in
the world), Gates' Au Sable Lodge (http://www.gateslodge.com/), is a world-class fly shop. The owner
(second-generation) is incredibly knowledgeable, engaging, and just plain nice. However, the place also has a 17-unit motel/lodge right on the river, a
restaurant, and a thriving guide service. Consequently, when tackle sales are down, restaurant sales might pick up. When the hatches are mostly over, families
cone with children to stay on the river. Bird hunters come in the fall. When he closes for winter, regular customers still order items from him by phone. So
while it may be the end of many of our favorite shops, I think that this one shows that those shops fortunate enough to have a diversified business can still
thrive. Oh, and it doesn't hurt that the shop is the hub of the local river conservation efforts, which brings back many loyalists to the cause.
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the abandoned brane |
#17 | |||
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Posts: 123 10/28/2008 04:20 |
tell me about it. visited the UP for the first time this past summer, rolled into marquette about 9 am and stopped on the wildlife office there. asked them
some questions and info on camping. also asked them for a fly shop, they gave me directions to gander mountain. ugh. fishing was fine though. 4 days just the
dog and I in the woods.
btw: greyling is a cool town. ZenCane wrote: |
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Bullwinkle |
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Posts: 16 10/28/2008 07:50 |
I second all the good things said about Rusy's.. and would add that dogs are welcome at the motel/lodge and the corned beef hash with several poached eggs
are worth the trip!
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bulldog1935 |
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Posts: 6266 10/28/2008 10:03 Bulldog1935 |
the formula for a successful fly shop is to locate in a weekend antique-shopping town, with 95% of the floorspace dedicated to women's apparel and
accessories.
fly-tying supplies are the lowest-profit use of inventory space and won't be there.
the rods are never obsolete - the marketing is.
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nesterbc |
Local fly shop | #20 | ||
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Posts: 37 10/31/2008 09:45 |
I read the posts about local flyfishing shops closing their doors i realize how devaststing that would be for me. Its nice to have a local shop like i do and
frequent on a regular basis.Especially this time of year when i gear up my flytying and Christmas shopping.Aplace to go to talk about how to tie different
flies talk about different streams what paterns to use etc. But also a place try out or try on equipt.like waders boots cast a new rod .The shop i frequent also gets in a lot of used equip through the course of a year like bamboo rods, reels. Thea also have a good web sitehttp://www.theeveningrise.com/ which gives them a lot of mail order sales especially over seas(devaluation of the dollar) They run seminars, fishing trips,have company reps come by and run fly tying classes. They do some saltwater stuff. Theres always someone stopping by with a fish story a fishing report and clients who fish everywhere. They also have a good repoir with the Feathered Hook a bed and breakfast fly shop in Coburn Pa (thefeatheredhook.com) on the Penns creek this shop has a great selection of Bamboo rods for sale and has a lot of different rod makers display thrrrrrrrrere wares there. With Hardy Grays locating in Lanc. PA. The shop is going to get a big display of their products in late nov early dec. I know the big box stores have better prices but you can,t beat the service commrodity(spelling) hands on fly fishing fly tying info used equipt etc etc etc |
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