having a rod built for your needs

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Pete from MA	having a rod built for your needs		Lead	[-]
Posts: 4 01/13/2009 13:02	Tags : None In the past I have bought my fly rods "off the shelf" … and whether its new or used I go through the ritual of wiggling it and then inspecting it …and then trying some lawn casting.. if it feels good & looks good then I buy it … Well now I'm getting ready to cross over and have one built (this is new ground for me). This was the type of information I was going to provide the builder…. But Do you guys have any advice for the type of information I should provide that might be helpful to a builder? I live close enough to the builder so that I can drive over if needed. Fly rod specifics. Trout rod (general purpose/ all around) will be my primary fishing rod. Drys, wets, nymphs, midges, streamers, wooly buggers (mostly small humpies) Typical water is slow wadeable rivers, small streams, and the occasional pond Rod Length: 7 ft 6 inches (casting will help) Line weight: 5 ( I may be biased so I am open to your advice) Sections: 2 piece (Casting will help) Cane to be flamed Grip sized to be proportionate to rod Reel seat (still thinking about it but I'm leaning toward the Mahogany) Last Edited By: Pete from MA 01/13/2009 13:13. Edited 1 time.
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pvansch1		#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 4217 01/13/2009 13:04 Moderator	It helps to get to a show or gathering and cast some rods. Other than that call the builder, explain the fishing situations, likes and dislikes in rods you have or cast. Pete "Listen to the river sing sweet songs to rock my soul" Grateful Dead
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rlnunleycom		#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 438 01/13/2009 13:21	Pete, Congratulations on getting ready for your first custom purchase. Personally, I think the rod length and line weight you chose are perfect. While many consider a 7' 4wt to be the "Holy Grail" of bamboo rods, I think a 7'6" 5w is a much more versatile and usable tool, and if I were to have only one rod, (I can't imagine that), I'd have to strongly consider the 7'6" for a 5, in a swelled butt, medium fast action. Key things in ordering a new rod built for YOU. Find a maker that makes the kind of rod you like. In other words, if you want a fast action rod with a swelled butt, then choose a maker who can make that rod without "getting out of his box" to cater to your needs and make sure the maker clearly understands what you want. It's very frustrating to expect one thing and get something completely different. Wraps, grip style, filler wood... all that is secondary to the action. The hardest thing I do as a maker is turn down orders because it's just "not what I do". So research here on the forum and among other cane rod owners and figure out who makes the kind of rod you want. After that, talk to the maker. Make sure he understands EXACTLY what you want. Get all the terms of the deal on paper, such as deposit, if any, order cancellation requirements, etc. Also, write down the specifications you require... Length, line weight, filler material, bright or blued hardware, chrome or dark guides and tip top, cane color (flamed, blonded, whatever), winding colors, tipping colors, grip style and length. Putting these on paper and sending them to the maker INSURES that there are no misunderstandings about your order. Insure that the makers lead time (time from order to delivery) is OK with you. It's frustrating for a maker when he gives a customer a delivery date and the customer starts calling in half the time wanting his rod. Of course, the maker can eliminate problems with this by simply emailing or calling the customer with an occassional update on the progress of his rod. One thing that has come up here many times. Be SURE of the terms of any deposit if the rodmaker requires one! Is it a "deposit" and will it be returned if the order is cancelled by you? Is there a time limit on cancelling an order and receiving full refund on deposits? Can you change your mind about exactly what you want as far as line weight, length, hardware etc (this can be a problem for many makers). Is your deposit really a deposit or is it a "non-refundable" down payment? If you get a fine quality rod, you're going to end up paying anywhere from $1500 to... well, the sky is the limit, I'm beginning work this summer on a rod that will be valued at about $10,000. Be SURE that both you and the maker agree on EXACTLY what you expect, so far as appointments and length/weight, WHEN you expect to recieve it, HOW MUCH it's going to cost you and all the little details of the terms of the deal. Geez, hope I didn't scare you off of ordering a new rod from someone, but I just want to make sure that your first custom rod purchase will be a pleasurable experience. Best of luck with this endeavor, Bob R.L. Nunley Rodmaker
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pvansch1		#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 4218 01/13/2009 13:29 Moderator	Pete, If you can, you should hit the Marlboro Fly Fishing show, or better yet, make the trip to Superboo up in Maine. Not sure where in MA you are but I'm in CT, it's five hours each way and the only one I've missed was the first and that's because I didn't know about. You will have access to many rods both old and new, plus there are many rodmakers in attendance - And it's free. Pete "Listen to the river sing sweet songs to rock my soul" Grateful Dead
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seattlesetters		#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 520 01/13/2009 14:11	Pete - This is just my own thinking, but I thought I'd share in case it stirs something in you: I just wouldn't want one rod for doing all those things. If you happen to have a graphite rod or two, use it (them) for streamers, nymphs & such and make your really nice cane rod your special "dry-fly" rod or perhaps your "soft hackle" rod. While I have tried to do everything with one rod, I've always felt fishing to be more aesthetically appealing if I have a nearly perfect rod for the task at hand. Since bamboo is the most aesthetically pleasing material of all to fish with, why not make your experiences with it as close to perfect as possible? Of course, if you plan on more than one cane rod (very likely, I might add), you may want to make this purchase with a keen eye turned toward your next.
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tiptop		#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 460 01/13/2009 15:03	Bob Nunley gave some great advice, you should read it again. I've had a lot of rods go through my hands over the years. Some built for me, some new used, and some vintage. Every one was different and you're never really going to know if you like a specific rod until you've fished it -- more than once. I've had several rods built to my specs. that just didn't turn out as expected because of the nature of bamboo, the nature of communication between buyer and builder, etc. Some exceeded my expectations, some didn't, and some were right on the money. The safest thing to do is to buy a rod that you've cast because there's a possibility that a custom built rod will be a surprise.
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Pete from MA		#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 5 01/13/2009 15:05	Thank you gentlemen, your giving me a lot to think about (AND THAT"S GOOD!!!!) I don't know if this makes sense but I tend to bond with one thing ... one dog, one truck, one set of golf clubs, one wife. but I still have a few rods .... an old 2 piece South Bend 290 (when at home I use it 100% of the time). I also have a winston 5 piece LT for when I travel for work. and a sage SP as a back-up. This new rod will be a replacement for my 290. ... all rods are 5 wt. I've been looking around a lot and there is a builder close to where I live here in Mass who builds a Quad ...and since he's also close to some of the waters I fish I'm hoping he's got some good local karma. Also since my 290 is still pretty nice I'm in no rush (especially since his waiting list is about 4 years --but thats OK). I've thought about the financial part ...but to be honest...I guess it doesn't matter. I just don't see a flyrod in the same way I'd look at a set of golf clubs ... for me there is a personal side to having the right rod ...and as odd as it sounds my thoughts are hoping the rod builder stays healthy ..and if he needs a deposit we'll work whatever is right. I was planning on going to the Marlboro show ...and I've never heard of the event in Maine....thats a new one for me but it does sound like a lot of fun. You guys gave me some things I need to think about, and I realy appreciate it. Thank you.
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pvansch1		#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 4219 01/13/2009 15:21 Moderator	http://www.flyfishinginmaine.org/superboo/ Pete take a look at this link, or go up to the forum anouncements and check that thread. There's plenty of bamboo on hand and all for everyone to try, ask questions, cast etc. Pete "Listen to the river sing sweet songs to rock my soul" Grateful Dead
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Booman2		#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 539 01/15/2009 01:25	Last time I spoke with A.J. Thramer, possibly the most prolific builder out there, I said that I would never need another rod. Two beers later, I ordered a PHY Para-14 (7'9" #5). A.J. remarked that since he builds his own tapers in addition to dozens of "classic tapers" that a smart option for a buyer would be to discuss with him his exact needs and then have him (A.J.) suggest the rod. This option makes sense to me. Many of us own lots of bamboo rods, but very few have had the opportunity to fish all the best. Marty Keane and a few others have been so fortunate, but I opine that there are lots of very experienced bamboo people that haven't cast very many Dickersons, Garrisons, Hawes, and other classics. IMO, for small and medium stream fishing that you target, a 7'6" #5 is about perfect. The #5 provides good control with small streamers and buggers, has the spine to turn big fish, and is still (in bamboo) sensitive enough with small dries and nymphs. Good luck, and let us know what you end up doing.
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czkid	Slow and Easy	#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3822 01/15/2009 09:44 Moderator	Pete; Listen to the folks........ there's a lot of message between the lines. I'll give you what I give everyone else, cast, cast, cast... and when you find the one that fits; BUY THAT ROD... NOT A COPY. No one can tell you what it is you like... they may get you into the ball park... but then it's up to you. It's just like with Bob Nunley, Bob can build 5 different rods that are all supposedly the same... but there will be subtle differences between each one, but nothing like the difference if someone else tried to duplicate that rod... the DNA would be different, and you WILL feel the difference. That's why all the gentlemen that have posted ahead of me have told you that they ordered rods... and then subsequently got rid of them. The one thing that may help is that if you are enough of a neophyte, it may not make a heck of a lot of difference... but the further along this treacherous path you go, the more difference it makes. Bob is a dear friend, and if you ask him, I'm sure he'd tell you close to the same thing. Hit that show, and as many shows as you can comfortably get to before you buy. Cast those rods... you'll know when you hit the right one. Good Luck, God Speed!!! Ralph Last Edited By: czkid 01/15/2009 09:47. Edited 1 time.
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Drew Creek	On having a rod built	#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 95 01/15/2009 12:02	I have considered having a rod built for many moons. Thank you for asking this question. You are all absolutely correct and making sense of it. I can tell you what I think I like...but, no one can build at that moment what I may actually like. Not until I feel it in hand on the water with reel and line, and, I feel the AHHHH, that's it. And that, unfortunately, also may only be momentary as I progress through experience and knowledge of what is available. As I acquired additional rods, cast some excellent classics and wonderful new rods, and used my own in a variety of circumstances, my perceptions of rods changed as I learned to feel the nuances. Have fun in your search. Dave T.
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rlnunleycom		#11	[url]	[-]
Posts: 445 01/15/2009 12:23	czkid wrote: It's just like with Bob Nunley, Bob can build 5 different rods that are all supposedly the same... but there will be subtle differences between each one, but nothing like the difference if someone else tried to duplicate that rod... the DNA would be different, and you WILL feel the difference. That's why all the gentlemen that have posted ahead of me have told you that they ordered rods... and then subsequently got rid of them. Ralph Ralph is dead on with this. There are such subtle difference from culm to culm with bamboo, that it's can be quite difficult to make two like rods of like taper and exacting dimension cast EXACTLY the same. I have a few things I do to try to duplicated actions as closely as possible, but it's still not an exact science. Power fiber pack that may 'look' the same on two culms will NOT be the same. The only way you can get that is looking on a microscopic level, or possibly smaller and nit picking so much that culling bamboo goes from a 10 to 30% thing to a 99% thing. If we, as makers, had to do that, then you, as buyers, would be looking at materials costing nearly as much as the present retail price of a rod. It's just not feasable. That being said, you need to understand that, if two like rods are made properly, the differences are so subtle that they are only picked up by a small percentage of the flyfishers in the world. I can build 5 Payne 98 copies, all of them dimensioned perfectly, and set them by an original Payne 98 and only one in every 5 to 10 flyfishers is going to be able to tell the difference, and the odds of 2 or 3 of these casting EXACTLY like the original are pretty good. Still, on the others, there will be a difference... sometimes subtle, and sometimes, you just get a piece of bamboo that screws you all along, but you just don't know it until you get the rod ready to test cast. Those are the ones that SHOULD end up in the trash can at the end of the workbench, but unfortunately, most of them end up on the market, not in the dumpster. I guess we're clouding up the waters for you enough, aren't we! Well, if this is your first truly custom rod, then this is an important decision. Just take all the time you need, dot your "I"s, cross your "T"s and make sure you get something you'll enjoy for a long time to come. Bob R.L. Nunley Rodmaker Last Edited By: rlnunleycom 01/15/2009 12:29. Edited 1 time.
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Pete from MA		#12	[url]	[-]
Posts: 8 01/15/2009 12:43	Mr. Nunley. your not confusing things at all. In fact, you and the rest of the team are helping me a lot. I was hoping I wasn't weighing down the board with basic questions. My assumption is that pretty much everyone that visits this site has been fishing for a long time. I won't say that we are all expert fisherman because I feel like a novice on so many days (eventhough I've been fishing for over 40). Your inputs though are very helpful and I've been rereading them and thinking about some of the subtle little things you bring up. In the past I use to work off of the routine that if I found a rod that I liked then I'd buy it. but having a rod built for you doesn't fit that model ...in fact it leaves you a little exposed. you hope the rod being built for you is the one .... but you never know until you get it into your hands, Things I mentioned earlier: taper, number of sections, rod length ...they all play into it ...but also its a step of faith and sometimes you shouldn't over think these things and its time to take a step of faith. If I was going to characterize the notes I posted...I guess I'm trying to learn how to speak "Bamboo" in a way that would give me the best chance of getting a rod that would be my right match ....and all your posts have been helping me learn how to do that ... So..I'm trying to tell you guys that I'm very grateful for sharing your ideas. and I still believe having a rod built for you is much different than buying one after casting it. I don't mean disrespect when I say this ... but I'm looking for a "Fishermans rod" although I appreciate the craftsmanship...that part will mean very little if it doesn't perform on the stream. Last Edited By: Pete from MA 01/15/2009 12:55. Edited 2 times.
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Boonut		#13	[url]	[-]
Posts: 400 01/15/2009 13:14	You might want to talk to Dave Male about a rod.
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laxdad	Date of Marlboro Show?	#14	[url]	[-]
Posts: 22 01/16/2009 10:17	pvansch1 wrote: Pete, If you can, you should hit the Marlboro Fly Fishing show, or better yet, make the trip to Superboo up in Maine. Not sure where in MA you are but I'm in CT, it's five hours each way and the only one I've missed was the first and that's because I didn't know about. You will have access to many rods both old and new, plus there are many rodmakers in attendance - And it's free. pvanschl, Don't want to hijack the thread but what is/are the date(s) of the show? I received the promotion piece but it ended up in the trash. Thanks. George
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Pete from MA		#15	[url]	[-]
Posts: 11 01/16/2009 12:22	Marlboro Show starts today January 16, 17 & 18, 2009 FRI 1000 -1400 SAT 0900- 1730 SUN 0900 -1630 Location: Royal Plaza Trade Center, Marlborough, MA web site: www.flyfishingshow.com phone: (814) 443-3638
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Serendipity		#16	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1296 01/16/2009 14:56	Pete, I think the best suggestion here is to take your time and try out as many rods as possible, and by "try out" I mean "fish" and not just cast. Then make notes. If you try out, say, ten rods over a period of time, it will be easy to lose track of what you liked and didn't like. I agree that if you find a rod you really like and it's for sale, you might just want to buy it, but only if you have had enough experience to feel comfortable making that judgment. Rods can be a little like wine. Some are assertive and obvious, others take a little more time to understand and appreciate and the more wine you've tasted the easier it is to know the difference. One thing I've learned, and Bob Nunely already mentioned this, the maker may be more important than the individual rod. Dana Gray is unquestionably a great maker, but that doesn't automatically make him the best maker for you. Like you, I live in Mass but my favorite maker lives in Wisconsin. There is just something about the action of his rods that fits me. Finally, I want to throw one more variable at you. Your taste in rod action may change over time. This may give you pause about investing heavily in a single rod, especially if it will be your "one and only." I understand "one and only" for women and dogs but I'm not sure it's the best way to think about cane rods. In any case, best of luck with your search. I'm certain you'll enjoy the journey. richard Last Edited By: Serendipity 01/16/2009 15:00. Edited 3 times.
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DT4F		#17	[url]	[-]
Posts: 21 01/23/2009 12:57	When reading your specifications and desires as to length, line weight, fly preferences, I immediately thought "that sounds like a South Bend 290". It makes me wonder why you desire to go to the expense of having a new rod made to duplicate the SB 290. There are still a few out there in like new condition. But like you, however, I grab my 290 usually,when I head out. I still must acquire/restore other rods. I have even now planed a sweet 7 1/2 5wt rod, and, of course it duplicates my SB 290!
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cdmoore	Lots of good info here already...three more thoughts	#18	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2649 01/23/2009 19:44 Moderator	1. When I go out to eat or place a phone order for takeout, I ask them to read it back to me. Might be a sensible approach with your rodmaker if you know what I mean. 2. There are quite a few rodmakers who will literally take back a rod if you don't like it and make you another. That could be an option. 3. If the MA quad builder you mention is Per Brandin, it might be best to call him direct because he has stopped taking orders. Chris "Occasionally, I hallucinate. About fly fishing. Well, not really. I guess I just forget about everything else." ~Tom Chandler
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Pete from MA		#19	[url]	[-]
Posts: 13 01/23/2009 20:05	The Builder is Dana Gray of Carlson Rods ... I know its probably a little over the top to pay that much for a fishing rod .... but god do I love fishing ...fishing seems to always be in my thoughts as I go through the day. and now I'm a little older and thought it won't hurt to turn the corner and enjoy something nice after passing one of lifes milestones.
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Soft Hackle		#20	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1189 01/23/2009 22:39	I would not hesitate to second the suggestion of a Dave Male rod. He is without a doubt the best fisherman I have been around and reads water and insects like Theodore Gordon. He builds a beautiful and reasonable priced rod, although he doesn't make quads. His rods are made to fish yet very pretty as well.
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