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 Joel Anderson |
Ferrule Glue |
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Posts: 75 01/30/2009 12:26 |
Okay, I'm sure this topic has been discussed at length already, but at the risk of redundancy I'll bring it up again. I've experienced numerous
ferrules glue failures using cheap 5 minute epoxy. I'm interested in what others are using successfully. Also, is pinning worth the extra effort?
joel |
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BigTJ |
#1 | |||
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Posts: 713 01/30/2009 12:35 |
Joel,
Last time this came up the two main camps were pliobond and epoxy. Dave Collyer (denver dave) has a great tutorial on the pliobond method on the web. If you can't find it let me know I'll xerox my copy and send it to you. I have only used epoxy but I will try the pliobond on my next rod. The trick of the pliobond seems to be getting a slip fit, which looks like it takes a bit of know-how to do. Hopefully AJ will chime in last time 'round he had some great advice on this. |
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aparramoure |
#2 | |||
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Posts: 1650 01/30/2009 12:44 |
Joel, one question for you. Did you clean the inside of the ferrule. The machining oil will affect the glue.. I clean it our with alcohol and wipe it dry with
a napkin. I use the 5 minute epoxy and never had a problem,, unless I forgot to clean the ferrules inside.
Art |
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Joel Anderson |
#3 | |||
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Posts: 76 01/30/2009 13:46 |
Art, I was questioning myself that same question. The ferrules that have failed so far are among the first rods I made last year and I may overlooked that
step. I did find some dark residue when I cleaned the ferrules after failure. Since then I've become diligent about removing any residue inside the
ferrules before gluing and I haven't had any failures. Of course, time may prove me wrong on that front. I think it may be a combination of cheap Walmart
5-minute epoxy and not paying attention to proper ferrule preparation. I think I remember reading somewhere (the Good Reverend Boyd, perhaps?) that when it
comes to ferrules, "Cleanliness was next to Godliness." I bought some Locite industrial strength 5-minute epoxy and will give that a try.
Still interested if other makers find that pinning is worth the effort? |
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oldfishbrain |
#4 | |||
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Posts: 1275 01/30/2009 13:49 |
I am not in much of a hurry so I use the slow cure (overnight) Golden Witch epoxy. I cut the ferrule station on the lathe, fit the ferrule, bind the tabs, turn
the lathe on to make sure the ferrule is installed true and I don't take the binding cord off until next morning. Have not pinned and have never had a
failure (mind you that is only 15 rods so far).
As pointed out above the inside of the ferrule has to be perfectly clean.
Maker of light line nodeless bamboo fly rods
avardanis@sympatico.ca |
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johnr |
ferrule glue | #5 | ||
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Posts: 105 01/30/2009 13:58 |
golfsmith shafting epoxy (24hr cure), I figure if that glue can hold up to the abuse a golf club gets, then it should hold up for my ferrules,
and yes, clean out the inside of the ferrules extremely well prior to mounting. I use acetone first, then another cleaning with denatured alcohol. johnr |
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PA Limestoner |
#6 | |||
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Posts: 58 01/30/2009 14:40 |
The late Tom Maxwell advised me to use JB Weld and I have used nothing else since. Never had one fail, and one time when I had to replace a female uniferrule
because of early machining problems, it was a son of a gun to get off. Had to carefully slit the ferrule and peel back the tabs, with a lot of bamboo fibers
still attached. I sandblast the inside of the ferrules with 50 micron aluminum oxide and boy does the junk come out. I also wipe the bamboo ferrule station
with lighter fluid prior to gluing to remove any trace of oils from the cane. I usually glue up within one hour of sandblasting so that no oxidation can occur
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Lee Koch |
#7 | |||
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Posts: 433 01/30/2009 14:53 |
My first half-dozen rods I used Devcon 5-minute epoxy just as Maurer said to do. Then I tried Pliobond on a few rods, but got frustrated with having to get
the dry fit "just right". Now I use golf shaft epoxy (HySol 9427 or something - don't quote me on the number - the glue is at home...).
In 27 rods, I've had exactly one failure, and it was when I forgot to fastiduously clean the ferrule before glueing. Duh! I now pin most of my ferrules, although I am not sure why since I haven't had failures. Insurance? BTW, it IS possible to get ferrules off that have been glued with golf-shaft epoxy without ruining the cane, but you'll ruin the ferrule in the process, and it can take some careful work - hot, cold, and a ferrule puller. All the best, Lee |
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tapermaker |
#8 | |||
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Posts: 706 01/30/2009 15:00 |
i use golf club shafting epoxy. just as important to me as cleaning the ferrule is using a small file to rough up inside of the ferrule.The extra bite gives
the epoxy something to grab hold of.
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Canewrap |
#9 | |||
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Posts: 84 01/30/2009 15:35 |
I have used polyurethane glue the last few years. However, I know I won't get the ferrules off without ruining the cane. I pulled a ferrule off a broken
tip and it was a bugger getting it off and burned the cane underneath before I could get it off. I've not had any failures though and one of the rods
I've fished in some cold temps and then taken the rod into a heated car. For 5-minute epoxy, doing that a couple of times usually spells a failure. In-fact
if I know I will want to get a part off in the future I glue it with Devcon 5-minute epoxy because it is so easy to get off. All you have to do is heat it, ice
it, heat-it and pull and off she comes. I'm convinced its due to the brittleness and shear strength of the glue and the fact that heating it expands the
metal and breaks the bond because of poor shear strength.
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mtn |
re | #10 | ||
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Posts: 431 01/30/2009 15:44 |
I had several failures with the 2 ton epoxy which I guess probally isn't as brittle as 5 min but is still brittle, so I switched and since have used 2
products; If I am going to pin the ferrule say on a restoration I use Bohning Ferr-L-Tite. On new rods I use the Pliobond method without a pin. I
haven't had failures with either method and I like to be able to remove ferrules non destructively which is possible with both.
Mike |
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eastprong |
#11 | |||
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Posts: 419 01/30/2009 16:13 |
Has anyone used Powerbond:
http://www.canadianoutdoo...product.php?productid=943 I have used it on the few rods on which I've set ferrules. So far, so good. It's made by Bohning for the same application as Ferr-L-tite (attaching points on arrow shafts). It seems to be a polyurethane type of glue that is less brittle and will break with some heat. Jeff Wagner recommends it on his site. --Rich |
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Canewrap |
#12 | |||
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Posts: 86 01/30/2009 18:01 |
Rich, any idea how much heat? |
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eastprong |
#13 | |||
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Posts: 420 01/30/2009 21:37 |
Slightly more than 5-minute epoxy. Not anywhere near as much as it takes to loosen regular polyurethane glue.
--Rich |
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canerodscom |
#14 | |||
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Posts: 1969 01/31/2009 01:23 Bamboo preacher |
Rich,
I've used that glue quite often, and really like it. But it's quite expensive when you consider that you throw away about 90% of the bottle when it thickens and dries out after 3-4 uses. Harry
Harry Boyd
maker@canerods.com http://www.canerods.com http://www.canerods.blogspot.com http://www.bamboorodschool.com |
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eastprong |
#15 | |||
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Posts: 421 01/31/2009 08:11 |
Harry:
A shot of Bloxygen after each use will help greatly. You're right, the stuff really wants to set up. --Rich |
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canerodscom |
#16 | |||
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Posts: 1970 01/31/2009 09:54 Bamboo preacher |
Now that's smart, Rich. Never thought of using Bloxygen with glue. Use it every time I open a container of finish, but the idea of using with glue just
never occurred to me.
Thanks, Harry PS -- as a polyurethane based glue I'm guessing that moisture is required for it to cure. Remember I live in pseudo-tropical Louisiana, so the problems with setting up in the jug may be worse here than some other places.
Harry Boyd
maker@canerods.com http://www.canerods.com http://www.canerods.blogspot.com http://www.bamboorodschool.com |
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driftless |
pliobond | #17 | ||
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Posts: 63 01/31/2009 10:05 |
I've used pliobond since rod #1.
I've modified the application, however. Instead of setting everyting on fire, I use a heat gun to "flame off" the solvents in the glue. The whole assembly goes together easily once the solvents are gone & the glue is nice & warm. Also, should it be necessary, the ferrules are easy to remove using heat from the heatgun. No pinning eather! We fish bamboo here in Wisconsin during sub-freezing temps. Pliobond works like a champ!! Paul Julius Cross Plains, WI |
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bbamboo |
#18 | |||
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Posts: 140 01/31/2009 11:05 |
I use Epoxy. Araldite
But I never use the fast set up stuff. 20 yrs of rodmaking and never had one come off.
www.nichobamboorods.com
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HERMES2069 |
Ferrule glue | #19 | ||
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Posts: 485 01/31/2009 16:30 |
I can't stress it enough...
CLEAN CLEAN CLEAN Use a small Dremel wire brush if you have to. I use Fuji Hot melt Glue. a new formula,. and always PIN My 2 cents Phil |
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rlnunleycom |
#20 | |||
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Posts: 473 01/31/2009 21:48 |
Coming up really fast on 700 rods and with Devcon brand 5 minute epoxy, I've NEVER had even one single failure. I do NOT pin.
There are plenty of good adhesives out there for installing ferrules. Most every one that's been suggested here, I would use, except for hot melt cements. I just don't like them for anything but tip tops. |
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