Reducing tearout?

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Stephen Veefkind	Reducing tearout?		Lead	[-]
Posts: 45 02/12/2009 22:12	Tags : None Hi. I'm using a Stanley 9 1/2 with a L-N blade, and final sharpening with 8000 grit Japanese water stone. This is on nodeless rods, so no nasty nodes to deal with. However, I am still getting tearout, especially at the butt ends of the strips for some odd reason. I've tuned the plane as described in earlier threads. At times i get beautiful transluscent thin shavings. Then, rip... tears a chunk of bamboo. What is the optimal way to adjust the Stanley? (or otherwise reduce tearout) -throat opening? -sharpening blade at what angle? -and ??? Thanks
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canerodscom		#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1990 02/12/2009 23:12 Bamboo preacher	SV, "Optimal" is what works best for you. I can tell you what works for me, but you'll have to adjust to your own circumstances. Sounds like you have a quality blade, and I'll assume your plane has been well tuned; sole flattened, bedding surfaces level, etc. Developing a routine is key. First, learn to stop and sharpen just before you really need to. As soon as something starts to feel different, stop and sharpen. Second, sharpen the same way, every time. Keep those water stones nice a flat and true. I try to keep my plane irons sharpened between 30* and 35. Thirty degrees on the irons I use to make deep (.004" - .005")cuts, and thirty-five on those with which I make light cuts of .003" or less. Third, re-assemble the plane the same way every time. Back off the blade advance mechanism. If it's a classic 9.5, move the thumbwheel down. If it's a modern 9.5, turn two full turns counter-clockwise. Insert the blade as square as possible. Install the lever cap and tighten. Now advance the blade till you can see it with the plane upside-down, and always make your final adjustments pushing the blade farther out rather than pulling it inwards. Make sure the blade protrudes evenly across the sole or otherwise adjust so that it will cut evenly all the way across. Adjust the throat of the plane till it's about a pencil lead width from the plane iron. Finally, I suspect that chunks being ripped out has more to do with technique than with the plane. Use little more downward pressure than the weight of your hand. If your index finger hurts from pressing on that knob, you're pressing too &^% hard. When things start to chatter, skew the plane so that you're cutting at an angle. Doing so exposes more of the blade to the bamboo and results in more of a slicing motion. Keep those strips straight. If you're getting chunks, chances are good that the power fibers are angled at that point. That's especially true if these strips are sawn rather than split. Hope some of this helps. If not, we'll come up with more ideas. Harry Harry Boyd maker@canerods.com My website canerods.com My blog -- canerods.blogspot.com Ozark Rod Makers School
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Stephen Veefkind		#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 46 02/12/2009 23:27	Thanks Harry. I do notice that I get more tearouts near the butt end as I plane toward the butt end. Does the direction of travel matter- ie, toward the tip vs. toward the butt?
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Dnb57		#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 16 02/13/2009 00:26	Hi Harry, Do you put a micro bevel on your blades? Dave
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canerodscom		#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1991 02/13/2009 01:21 Bamboo preacher	SV, I haven't planed more than a dozen strokes from tip towards the butt in almost 200 hand planed rods. Dnb57, Micro-bevels aren't really a part of my routine, but when I want to change to a steeper bevel I usually just start with a micro bevel that increases over time. HB Harry Boyd maker@canerods.com My website canerods.com My blog -- canerods.blogspot.com Ozark Rod Makers School
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AJ Bamboo		#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 787 02/13/2009 03:27	is the plane flat on the bottom? stanleys are never flat from the factory. throat? mine are .010 for the finish plane angle? 35 to 40 degrees for the finish plane. tip to butt? never sand them as suggested by others? never plane iron? english made stanley works just fine. tried the fancy blades and they were not as tough IMHO
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pvansch1		#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 4345 02/13/2009 08:33 Moderator	One more thng to mention about sharpening is to remove the burr from the backside of the blade. Pete "Listen to the river sing sweet songs to rock my soul" Grateful Dead
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thousandstar		#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 154 02/13/2009 08:51	I've had the same problem. I've reduced the tear outs buy not eliminated them completely. It helped me to make sure the nodes on the enamel side were perfectly flat. I also increased the angle of the plane iron, by sharpening at a 35 degrees. I would get tear outs past the last node at the tip and these changes reduced tearouts by 80-90%
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rlnunleycom		#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 489 02/13/2009 09:16	Stephen, Very sharp plane blades, very straight nodes AND only planing from butt end to tip end will eliminate 95% of your tearout problems. Listen closely to what Harry said... try to sharpen BEFORE you need to sharpen. Back when I hand planed, I kept two planes in good shape and a half a dozen good blades sharpened and wrapped in paper on a shelf over my planing bench. This made it easy to just switch out planes, then when necessary, change blades, adjust for a few seconds and go back to planing. On my slow days, I'd sharpen all the blades and wrap them in paper. Bob R.L. Nunley Rodmaker
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Stephen Veefkind		#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 47 02/13/2009 09:48	Thanks guys. I'll check back in and let you know how I'm doing.
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Tim Anderson		#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 12 02/13/2009 14:21	Stephen Veefkind wrote: I do notice that I get more tearouts near the butt end as I plane toward the butt end. Does the direction of travel matter- ie, toward the tip vs. toward the butt? Assuming that the fibers in your strips are perfectly straight (parallel to the long axis of the strip), planing towards the butt end means you are planing "against the grain" to use a woodworking term. Since the strip is tapered, there are cut ends of the fibers pointing towards the tip. Harry did mention that he never planes towards the butt!
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oddsnrods	Maybe look to your stone...	#11	[url]	[-]
Posts: 191 02/13/2009 20:05	Waterstones wear easily. They tend to 'cup' very slightly in the middle after a few sharpenings, the angle of the blade will then be altered somewhat preventing a true and consistant cut , in fact the plane will start to skip out and not hold, making you push harder to retain the cut, then it may dig in and tear out. Keep flattening the surface of your waterstone to ensure pleasurable planing, get it right and a full section may be planed easily.
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Stephen Veefkind		#12	[url]	[-]
Posts: 48 02/14/2009 11:20	oddsnrods wrote: Waterstones wear easily. They tend to 'cup' very slightly in the middle after a few sharpenings, the angle of the blade will then be altered somewhat preventing a true and consistant cut , in fact the plane will start to skip out and not hold, making you push harder to retain the cut, then it may dig in and tear out. Keep flattening the surface of your waterstone to ensure pleasurable planing, get it right and a full section may be planed easily. Beautiful photo. This is what I'm working toward. Thanks again.
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oddsnrods		#13	[url]	[-]
Posts: 192 02/14/2009 15:07	Thanks. the waterstone angle is just one of a variety of reasons for tearout. Some bamboo can be a real pain to plane though, but get the plane adjusted just right and it will hover and take off very thin continual shaving without gouging the forms. Indeed for my final planing of the last few thou. I literally push the plane from the rear, very slowly, using two fingers at the base of the plane - no downward pressure at all. That last pass may still remove a continual shaving of a couple of thou. down to the surface of the forms without gouging. I use the surface of the forms as my template, and as you can see, they have little in the way of surface marks. When no more bamboo is removed, and the plane slowly glides over the metal, they are done. I used to measure the strips hundreds of times, now not at all, I like to cut to the final dimensions rather than use a scraper.
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