King waterstones

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canetuck	King waterstones		Lead	[-]
Posts: 40 03/02/2009 21:10	Tags : None I recently acquired two King honing stones, and would like some information about them.I had first planned to buy the 1000/6000 combo the Cattanach recommends,but wanting a thicker hopefully longer lasting stone I ended up buying a K-45 1000 grit stone on base and a S-2 6000 grit stone on base.My question is if these are true waterstones, as the Japanese supplier describes them as whetsones and sells them for Japanese swords and kitchen knives.Did I buy the wrong thing?
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mr flymph		#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 86 03/03/2009 10:37	Canetuck, They are both waterstones. The k-45 (homestone) is kind of a low budget offering but in that coarse grit it should do fine. The S-2 is a good stone. Understand that almost all the "waterstones" you see out there are synthetic. A true, natural Japanese waterstone is very expensive. I have used King stones for years with great success but have recently gone to Shapton Glass stones because they do not have to be soaked in water before use and, as a result, are less messy. Lonnie Speak yer mind, but ride a fast horse!
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BigTJ		#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 735 03/03/2009 10:41	Just be sure to lap those suckers every time you use them. I have a combo 200/1000 that is only used to lap my other stones with, the 200 on my 1,000 and the 1,000 on my 6,000 and 8,000. I also think there are a few lapping plates for sale out there. I don't know why the rodmaking books don't do a better job of pointing out the importance of lapping with water stones but it really makes a big difference. As far as wearing out your stones, my 1,000/6,000 combo is about 5 years old, and has plenty of life left, at this rate it will take me at least 10 more years to wear through the thinner 6,000 side, so don't worry unless you are making 20 rods a year those combos will last a long, long time. Last Edited By: BigTJ 03/03/2009 10:43. Edited 1 time.
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mr flymph		#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 87 03/03/2009 10:47	BigTJ is right. Be sure to flatten your stones often. It's easier to flatten them before they get too deformed. I do not use a lapping plate. I have a granite surface plate that I use with 150 grit Norton 3X sandpaper. That is what is recommended for the Shapton Glass stones and I think it would do fine for your King stones as well. Lapping plates can get ridiculously expensive. Lonnie Speak yer mind, but ride a fast horse!
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thegubster		#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1582 03/03/2009 11:01	canetuck, As you've been informed in these posts you're likely going to be fine. TJ mentioned a big point to keep them flat because they will dish out on you due to the inherent softness of the product. That's what makes them cut faster/easier...that slurry that's made by the stone's breaking down. I have a 3/4" x 12" x 12" piece of float glass I bought many years back. I keep it in a little box I made for storing it. I use a sheet of 100 grit wet/dry paper found in automotive supply stores to lap the 5 Japanese stones I have, from 800 grit up to 6000 grit and I do it after each use. And I do it to both sides if they aren't mounted. Also break the edges a good bit so they don't chip. I use a pencil to make 5-6 lines cross hatched on the stones and lap with water in a back/forth figure 8 motion and also an occasional spin 180 and 360 deg to keep things even. After only a few (depends) spins the lines all equally disappear....they're flat! I keep my stones in separate plastic containers of water w/a drop or two/three of bleach to retard mold. Done that since 1983 .....and 3 of the 5 stones are from that timeframe. No probs. I do have a Nagura stone to dress (create slurry) on the finer polishing stone as it helps in the cutting a lot. I have a "real" Nagura and a fake one. The real one is the best but the fake one does okay! Good luck. I think you did fine. Jeremy.
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canetuck		#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 41 03/03/2009 11:41	Thanks for all the replies and tips. I split my first culm Saturday and am looking forward to planing some cane.I plan to hone up my Hock blades in my Veritas MKII guide on the King Stones.I need to make a roughing form,rig up a heat gun oven, and finish my binder and I'll be set to start making rods. Jason
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JimmyB11		#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 14 03/03/2009 19:48	Sharpening on waterstones, these things are SOFT and when you use a honing guide you create a lot of wear. You should frequently flatten them. Take a pencil and create three full length grid lines on the length and 4-5 across the stone. When u go to flatten the stone the pattern will show you the lo spots and you need to lap them until the pencil lines are gone.
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BigTJ		#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 736 03/04/2009 01:44	Respectfully you guys I think maybe you are making life unnecessarily complicated. Pencil grids, sandpaper etc. you don't need all that stuff. Just keep an extra stone to lap with handy and soaked with the other ones seriously it takes less than 15 seconds, 8-10 lapping passes, do it frequently your stones - every time you sharpen - your water stones will always be dead flat. Jason don't wait another day, if you got cane start splitting and flattening now. Just go for it you wont' regret it. Last Edited By: BigTJ 03/04/2009 01:48. Edited 1 time.
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JimmyB11		#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 19 03/04/2009 22:30	It take 2 secs to make pencil marks and it minimizes wear when lapping. You don't want to use a 1000 grit stone lapping a 6000 or 8000 stone so be careful on that front.
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BigTJ		#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 737 03/05/2009 11:16	JimmyB, I am trying to figure out why you are saying you shouldn't use a 1,000 to lap a 6,000 or 8,000, is that something you read? Maybe it has something to do with mixing grits? I've got years of evidence that says it's fine, my blades are extremely sharp.. I just have to rinse off the stones afterwards with a splash or two of water so I don't co-mingle grits, and that's the same thing you should do if you use sandpaper. If it's good enough for the experts that showed me how to do this (Rob Cosman), and I always get great results it's good enough for me. Besides, using a 1,000 takes off more material and it's cheaper than a 6,000 so it's ideal. Do whatever you want but if it's something you read then you might want to re-consider because I've got to say it works great. As far as "taking 2 seconds" on the pencil marks it's still a bit of a waste of time and effort for me, I lap very frequently there is no way my stones ever get out of true and no need to ever check the trueness. I stopped checking mine after a while because they were always flat. Last Edited By: BigTJ 03/05/2009 11:26. Edited 4 times.
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JimmyB11		#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 20 03/05/2009 12:08	I am aware of Rob Cosman's techniques and they are a distillation of David Charlesworth's style. For quick touch ups and resharpens it is not so much of a big deal but for truing a back of a #4 plane iron or a jointer iron, it is a lot of work. I think Cosman has two 1000 nortons that he uses, a lot of people use sandpaper and glass. There is also the issue of slurry, which aids in the cutting process, hence the Nagura stone on the finer grit stones. Rob's freehand technique is not for everyone as he does not use a device to hold the iron. His approach to micro bevelling is a little odd as well. Rob is a professional woodworker who sharpens chisels and plane irons weekly and relies on his dexterity and frequency to give him a controlled result. I think if you saw the precision and detail of David Charlesworth's technique you would a more precison and repeatable technique at a low cost and minimal number of tools. The cost of a pencil is not that high and i was flabbergasted to see how quickly the center portion of the stone wore down. So instead of another 50 plus dollars for a second stone I suggest a pencil. Try the pencil next time you flatten a stone, it only takes a second. Rob's style lends itself well to woodworking which is material removal followed by scraping, if you are having success with it great but the refined method offers more control and precision at a lower cost.
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mr flymph		#11	[url]	[-]
Posts: 93 03/05/2009 12:42	Sharpening hand tools is one of those things that some folks start doing out of necessity and it soon becomes an obsession. I may be one of those folks. When I was first taught how to sharpen a plane iron and saw what the tool was capable of I was hooked. I happen to love sharpening my plane irons and chisels and am forever on the quest of obtaining that perfect edge. It's not enough for me to get a workable edge that will accomplish the task at hand, I want the finest edge that I can possibly get. As a result, I go the extra mile even though it may not be necessary. Probably all of us fall somewhere on that continuum (sp?). I find sharpening relaxing and meditative and I believe it is an art in itself. I have heard that, for some, tying flies is equally meditative. For me, it's an act of total frustration and I have vowed to never tie another fly as long as I live. Take it as far as you want to. Lonnie Speak yer mind, but ride a fast horse!
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thegubster	Me too.	#12	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1593 03/05/2009 13:27	Lonnie, I also love to sharpen, especially since you bamboo boys have shown me what REALLY sharp means. So, along with aformentioned Japanese stones I recently couldn't turn this HUGE Black Hard Arkansas stone down for $152 on the 'Bay. She's 5 1/2" x 17" and varies in thickness but both sides are ground FLAT from a company that produces the Arkansas sharpening stones in AR. A superb buy! Not yet whetted with oil but hopefully will be soon.... Jeremy.
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