I was fitting the male ferrule by hand after making both the male and female, and was struggling with the last 1/2 of the male. It seems to stop inside the
female ferrule, as if the bottom part of the female was a smaller diameter than that of the top half (closest to the opening). I measured many times, and had
the male slide down to the same dimensions the entire length, but it still stuck. I made the male twice, and it happened both times. I measured the reamer as
well, and it is consistent along it's length as well. Where am I going wrong?
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Calling all ferrule makers - puzzling problem
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 brooke777 |
Calling all ferrule makers - puzzling problem |
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Posts: 55 03/04/2009 19:03 |
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drbaits |
#1 | |||
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Posts: 92 03/04/2009 19:48 |
Might you be dealing with an air seal? maybe you're too good and fit is too good...something about objects not being able to occupy the same space at the
same time :-]...not sure of the solution short of poorer fit or vent hole.
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brooke777 |
Wish that was it! | #2 | ||
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Posts: 56 03/04/2009 19:55 |
I put sharpie marks on the end of the male, put it in the female, and spun it. The sharpie marks came off, and I could see them in the female tube.
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Lee Koch |
ferrules, ferrules... | #3 | ||
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Posts: 445 03/04/2009 20:56 |
Since you mentioned a reamer, can we assume you are making your ferrules out of bar stock? I don't have an answer, but here is a thought: for the female,
did you turn the outside of the barrel before reaming, so as to be sure that the bar being held by the 3-jaw chuck is round straight and centered? If not, if
the outside of the bar stock were not exactly round, your bar may turn slightly out of round, i.e. with some runout, which I think could make your reamer eat
away a little bit more of the wall at the welt end, thus creating a slightly conical hole. Just a thought. I will say that I have noticed the same conical
condition with some purchased bar stock ferrules that I bought in years past. Until I understood that, I kept over-lapping the males near the top, ending up
with a tight fit at the bottom, and a sloppy loose fit at the welt. I quit using those ferrules once I figured it out. Good luck! Lee
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AJ Bamboo |
#4 | |||
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Posts: 797 03/04/2009 21:06 |
i am guessing the female is from bar stock and drilled/reamed? if that is true then even many (but not all) of the commercial examples i have worked on exhibit
this 'flared' female profile to some degree or another. without knowing the exact process you use to remove material from the interior of the female i
can only offer a few educated guesses. the finish ream should be no more than .001 to .002 and be well lubricated with liquid tapping fluid. any more and you
have to withdraw and reinsert the reamer. each time this happens you will be 'belling' the interior of the female. some of the solid tapping compounds
will fill the flutes of the reamer and will not allow the chips to clear adequately. ideally you should be able to inset the reamer and complete the finish
ream with one pass.
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JimmyB11 |
#5 | |||
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Posts: 18 03/04/2009 22:25 |
Traditional reaming techniques call for a much heavier final cut with the reamer. For the sizes we are dealing with (13/64) you would normally have closer 15
thou cut with the reamer. What is the reasoning for such a light cut?
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brooke777 |
Reaming | #6 | ||
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Posts: 57 03/04/2009 23:58 |
Lee Koch wrote:Yes, using solid stock. I have been working on a 9/64, with the end ID of the female at .177, and the reamer is also at .177. I use collets to chuck the stock, but have not used an indicator to see if there is runout (just eye balling). I center drill, then drill with a .141 drill, and use a liquid cutting oil for the reamer,. I will turn the stock down a bit next time before chucking it in the collet to see if that helps. |
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brooke777 |
#7 | |||
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Posts: 58 03/05/2009 00:00 |
AJ Bamboo wrote:Hi AJ - I described my process above. Am I asking too much of the reamer to go from .141 to .177? I do try and ream with one pass, but sometimes the chips get caught up and I need to pull it out. I do stop the lathe, reinsert the reamer, and then start it up again though. |
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jgestar |
#8 | |||
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Posts: 32 03/05/2009 00:06 |
Try mounting an indicator on a bar held in your collet. Then indicate the shank of the reamer. If the collet and reamer are not bang on concentric, it is
unlikely you will get an accurate cut.
Tom |
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AJ Bamboo |
#9 | |||
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Posts: 798 03/05/2009 03:32 |
B177
from real world experience on my 10" lathe that is used only by myself and is dead on. use a reamer that is just under the finished size. the hole will be slightly tapered this way and more tapered with each and every pass of the reamer. you want only a bit of 'dust' in the reamer flutes. there is one maker of these bar stock ferrules who does not seem to have this problem, but only one in my experience. .036" is asking way too much. maybe .005 or .006" tops. if you get a set of ball burnishers to finish the holes then i believe you can achieve the same level of accuracy as a drawn ferrule but that is over the top IMHO. without a straight and true female then you will never get the level of ferrule fit that you want. this is by the way the #1 complaint of dealers, poor ferrule fit. i only make ferrules from drawn tubing these days but i had to make the first 50 ferrule sets or so from bar stock as ferrules were not really available when i started making rods. |
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Eebarral |
Check the tail stock for alignment | #10 | ||
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Posts: 35 03/05/2009 10:08 |
I agree with jgestar make sure everything is concentric. Check you tail stock and make sure it is dead nuts centered with the head stock. If it is not and you
can't get it trued in, especially if it is off up to down, you may need to go to a floating reamer holder. The reamer will follow the hole of the drill,
but if out of alignment, the sides of the reamer can make contact and taper the hole, especially when you are as small as 0.177" Speaking of the reamer,
we never ream more than a max of 1/64 (0.0156) here in the shop. If it were me I'd drill at a #20 at the smallest. You may want to try even 11/64 which
will leave you a ream of 0.006" but if your tail stock is out, you can over size or taper the hole with the drill before you start! Regards, Jon
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Grayson Davis |
Also ... | #11 | ||
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Posts: 3 03/23/2009 14:12 |
Check the inside diameter of the female with a ball gage. I got mine from SHARS. They are not US made, but they are fairly good (OK, I polished them a
little) and really cheap.
When I first made females from bar stock, I drilled 1/64" under then followed with a chucking reamer. Where I screwed up was in forcing the reamer at the bottom of the hole. This does very little to flatten the bottom, but is very good at making the reamer flex. The reamer is held straight at the chuck and at the bottom of the hole. When I bottomed it, it bowed nicely at the middle, and cut the female wider at the mouth. These days, I put some Dyechem on the drill and the reamer and scratch the appropriate depths. So long as the reamer depth of cut (the bevel on the bottom edge doesn't count) is greater than the length of the male slide, it works. |
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Blue Quill |
#12 | |||
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Posts: 45 03/23/2009 21:53 |
Hi Brooke, I agree with AJ; .005-.006 tops for reaming, and make sure you are going slow enough.
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Hollowbuilt |
Reaming bar stock` | #13 | ||
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Posts: 23 03/30/2009 00:24 |
Blake,
You are describing a classic "bellmouth" in the female. The opening is larger than the midpoint. This is caused by misalignment of the reamer. Does not matter whether it is cocked in, out, up or down. It will do this. The cutter (reamer) is stationary, and the part is turning. The misalignment causes side pressure on the part, which causes bell mouthing. As a possible fix, you may try boring the hole with a Micro 100 boring bar after drilling. They make them small enough. This would run in the tool post on your cross slide. You could bore the female out to just undersized, and check for taper with a gage pin prior to reaming. Hope this helps. Regards, Chris 
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- Members Corner
- Forum Announcements
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