I recently purchased two of each....The Hook and Hackle plastic lines are thinner than the Cortland Peach.....They're about as thin as the Phoenix silk
lines....I really liked the way the H&H line flew through the guides.....The phoenix silk flies a little better, but $230 better? No.....I believe the
silk will throw tighter loops but again, the H&H lines are sweet and not just because theyr'e $33.....They are nice lines, period.
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Hook and Hackle plastic vs Phoenix silk
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 Chartist1 |
Hook and Hackle plastic vs Phoenix silk |
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Posts: 263 03/18/2009 19:17 |
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bow river |
#1 | |||
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Posts: 1255 03/18/2009 19:40 |
jim
put a link up so we can see these so called wonder lines your bragging about  ,
your not a sale'sman for them are you by any chance 
Richard
Check out my web site for vintage reels & rods , guided float trips on canada's # 1 best trout river http://bowriveradventures.googlepages.com/home |
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 Marty |
#2 | |||
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Posts: 62 03/18/2009 19:59 |
Silk is fished for more reasons than just functionality and your comparison a bit like comparing a Stradivarius to a Wal-Mart fiddle. Both make sound and
perform a similar function but are two entirely different classes of instrument.
Life is too short for cheap scotch and plastic rods.
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Chartist1 |
#3 | |||
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Posts: 264 03/18/2009 20:01 |
Sorry Rich, I never learned how to do links....I am not from the slide rule era but no one carried laptops when I went to college.....Phoenix silk lines are
"wonder lines" imo......Just sayin that for $30 with the recent 10% off discount, H&H lines are nice.....And I think they offer benefits over
Cortland Peach as in lower price and thinner guage.....And hopefully float higher too.
I am not saying H&H lines are better than Phoenix silk.....Since I just spent $530 for two silk lines, I'd be foolish even proposing that one.
Last Edited By: Chartist1 03/18/2009 20:03.
Edited 1 time.
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creakycane |
#4 | |||
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Posts: 2127 03/18/2009 20:25 |
Both are great. The H and H DT's I have float well, cast well and the olive color is quite pleasant. They are not, in my estimation, anywhere near as
thin as the same sized Phoenix DT's. I believe anyone who likes the standard peach 444's will like the H and H high floaters and, at 30.00 approx,
they are good buys.
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bow river |
#5 | |||
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Posts: 1258 03/18/2009 20:47 |
i just tried to find these lines and no luck , can someone put a link up or tell this dumb canadian where to look , all i got was a place with chickens running
around
Richard
Check out my web site for vintage reels & rods , guided float trips on canada's # 1 best trout river http://bowriveradventures.googlepages.com/home |
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blacknosedace |
Hook and Hackle | #6 | ||
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Posts: 64 03/18/2009 21:13 |
Rich, www.hookhack.com
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1sweetcane |
Hook and Hackle Fly Lines | #7 | ||
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Posts: 12 03/18/2009 21:14 |
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Chartist1 |
#8 | |||
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Posts: 271 03/18/2009 21:26 |
Hopefully I am not comparing apples and oranges. But I just tied on a H&H 5WFF to some backing. After trimming the line end and studying a little closer,
that H&H end looks to be the same guage as my DT5 Phoenix silk tip.
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Short Tip |
#9 | |||
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Posts: 1003 03/19/2009 00:05 Moderator |
You are comparing apples to oranges. The H&H is indeed a 444 in a different color. No other difference, save the price. A nice line indeed, but no Phoenix.
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oneculm |
#10 | |||
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Posts: 507 03/19/2009 08:36 |
Hook and Hackle are fine. There is no way one line can cast almost ten times better than another.
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tiptop |
#11 | |||
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Posts: 517 03/19/2009 08:45 |
Short Tip wrote:IMO, the H&H and 444 Peach are NOT the same line. The differences in suppleness, diameter, and cold weather performance make it obvious if you are casting them side by side. |
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Short Tip |
#12 | |||
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Posts: 1005 03/19/2009 11:19 Moderator |
That's not my understanding, but I've been wrong before!
Of course one line isn't 10 times better than another. Just like a Payne isn't 36 times better than a Temple Fork. Phoenix lines do have the capability to "wake up" the action on many vintage rods which were designed for just such a line. They are also much more of a PITA to take care of in general. |
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TnTom |
H&H tried it. | #13 | ||
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Posts: 25 03/19/2009 12:57 |
I haven't perfected the cast yet but I get along. Whether roll or overhead I find the H&H casts about the same as the Cortland 444 (for me). I do not
think it floats as long as my Cortland.
I do dress it more frequently than I did the 444 (which was rarely) and it doesn't set high on the water. It doesnt take 20 years of fly fishing experience to see the line is not floating well. It seems to land softly. I will say and I'm sure its because I haven't added many new lines and simply don't know at a glance which end is the tip and which end is the butt but when I unpackaged my H&H it wasn't obvious. The sticker "attach to backing" had fallen off the line and the ends were buried in the coil. I had to mic a significant length of both ends to to determine which was the tip (5 wt WF F). This was the case with both boxes I ordered. Is there a way to (it has no loop) to quickly know which end is which (for sure) when this happens..ends buried and sticker laying loose in the box. It wouldnt stop me from buying more but I was a little p.o.'ed. At $30.00 vs. $45.0 I'd say I got what I paid for. I'll probably never experience high end line but wouldnt try to compare a (how much did you say  ) $230+ to $30 line. I did read that it was made by Cortland to specification by
by someone (H&H??? dont remember) but that its composition is not the same as 444 for whatever its worth. I tend to believe it.
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Chartist1 |
#14 | |||
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Posts: 273 03/19/2009 16:31 |
I feel the diameter of my H&H lines roughly equals the diameter of my Phoenix silk.....So, I expect a bit more wind resistance with the H&H versus the
Cortland Peach.
Phoenix silk has definately awoken the action in my fly rods. I look forward to fishing the H&H lines now that they're on reels. |
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wb4tjh |
#15 | |||
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Posts: 492 03/21/2009 23:29 |
I've been fishing several Hook and Hackle lines for several years, and I like them so much I might just start comparing other lines to THEM, instead of the
other way around. Who needs a hundred buck flyline when lines these good are so inexpensive?
Bill Anderson, Sarsota, Fl. "Bamboo is the Benchmark in flyrods". |
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cyangler |
Hooked on Green | #16 | ||
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Posts: 53 03/23/2009 11:52 |
Just purchased an H&H DT2 Hi-Floater. The feel, texture, and diameter seem akin to the 444 Sylk, but I suspect the taper more that of the 444 Peach. I cast
it from my knees in the hallway and it turned over very nicely in close. Would have needed more line out to load/weight the rod with a Sylk. I think I found
the line I was searching for in my Right Line for Short Casts thread. Thanks to all of you that responded and nudged me in the right direction.
Thanks Alan for the tip. Cy
Last Edited By: cyangler 03/24/2009 17:16.
Edited 1 time.
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cdmoore |
Price / Performance curve | #17 | ||
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Posts: 2756 03/25/2009 12:19 Moderator |
I'm not commenting on any particular characteristics of H&H lines or Phoenix. But I'm curious why anyone does this 10-times-better sort of comparison / thinking. I mean, I kinda get it on a gut level, but in my life, it's always more of a curve that gets more and more expensive the closer you get to "perfection" (however you or a group or an industry or whatever defines perfection). Take coins. I don't know if the terms are the same as when I was a kid, but a MS-70 isn't generally going to go for 6 times the price of a VF-15. More like 60 times. Or a car. A handmade Bentley doesn't accomplish the task of getting from A-B in a fundamentally different way than a Yugo, but it does so in ways that approach perfection in the minds of many consumers. So unless your Yugo is (quite possibly) on cinder blocks in your dooryard, the Bentley isn't going to get to point B 1000x faster than the Yugo, but it does cost 1000x more (at least). Or audio. I can listen to the yellow Sony cassette radio player I currently have on the kitchen counter or I can go in the living room and listen to my outdated audio system of Totem speakers and Adcom gear with a crappy Denon DVD player. I hear the same song, but better. Does the song go twice as long? Nope. And I'm not sure how one defines a sound as twice as good, but I do understand about frequency response, resolution, imaging, etc. The radio cost about $5. The old audio system probably cost $1500. 300x times as good? Doesn't even make sense really. But to get the ultimate system, I'd have to spend on the order of $100,000 to $1M or more. Might as well get my own band on retainer. I'm not being critical--god knows I've done it myself, probably even on this board--but why do people equate price differential with a linear improvement in quality / performance / effectiveness or whatever?
"If you finish in 7 days, I'll pay you for 10. If you finish in 10 days, I'll pay you for 7." ~Ballykissangel
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oldfishbrain |
#18 | |||
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Posts: 1312 03/25/2009 21:51 |
AMEN!!
Maker of light line nodeless bamboo fly rods
avardanis@sympatico.ca |
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Chartist1 |
#19 | |||
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Posts: 295 03/28/2009 12:30 |
First day out with new H&H DT4 line....The tip did sink a bit. I added some floatant which helped. The line flew through the guides, better than Cortland
Peach, imo. I wasn't able to cast the H&H line any further than the Peach (45 feet). The Phoenix silk line is flat out superior. I can cast it 60 feet.
So, if better wind resistance and increased casting distance is important to you, and you have $260 burning a hole in your pocket, Phoenix silk is the ticket.
But for everyday fishing without breaking the bank, you can't beat the H&H line.
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firehole |
#20 | |||
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Posts: 3809 03/28/2009 13:41 Local user |
Most fish are caught in closer 40' so there's no reason to throw out much further. The H&H fits my fishing needs without the maintenance required
for a silk and the hit to the pocketbook.
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