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Boo.fiberglassflyro... |
Trout vs Bass |
Lead | ||
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There are times when I think nothing could be sweeter than floating down a meandering backwoods green river with a warm southern breeze casting for smallies.
But, ya just never read or hear about it and very few adds showing the romantics of bass fishing. If so it's usually some big/husky good'ol boys with
goatees and ball caps whooping it up. The opposite is generally portrayed of the trout fisher. Why is trout fishing, especially with a bamboo rod, romanticized
so much more than bass fishing?
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nativebrownie |
#1 | |||
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Interesting, my take is the clear cold water, the status associated with trout in earlier lit, mayfly hatches, and the Chalkstream British carry over ... alot
more literature, too. But try Ovington and other classic authors on bass - they respect smallies. Actually, in my vintage FFM and FlyFishing periodicals and in
Pennsylvania Angler, there are many articles about bass and bluegills...
Oh... I agree - an approriate Heddon or South Bend or Monty and a smallie stretch (or a pond - for bucketmouths) rings my bell... NB |
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David Dornblaser |
#2 | |||
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I think that your general perception is correct, although not shared by everyone. I think that the perception can change with more pictures & posts from
bass enthusiasts. Maybe more picturesque stream & river pics? FWIW - one of the early videos that brought me to fly fishing is Dave Whitlock's
"Fly Fishing for Bass" tape. I watched that three times in a row and realized that I could do far more with a fly rod for large mouth bass than I
could with bait casters/spinning rods. Steelhead & trout followed later. Smallies are a wonderful game fish.
- David www.UpperMidwestFlyFishing.com - fly fishing in the Upper Midwest. Spring Creeks to Smallies to Steelhead.
Last Edited By: David Dornblaser 03/19/2009 19:34.
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Marty |
#3 | |||
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One thing to understand about bass fishing is that it is a huge $ sport like nascar across the country and has a far more blue collar image because of that.
Also a great many fly fishermen focus solely on trout. Bass are lumped with other "rough fish" in much of the old angling literature (and writings
on trout/ salmon fishing have a longer headstart than on bass). That said (although I consider myself primarily a trout fisherman) I spend a great deal of
time in warmer waters...... there is nothing more romantic or plain old fashioned than a deer hair bug and a bamboo rod and a light rod for bluegill is a
thrill at any age. There is a small lake I fish that is full of the bassmaster types and in that highly pressured water my smaller quieter offerings do
really well (you can watch them flip more furiously as you go down the bank 50yds back taking fish in the water they just blew through)... I really think it
is a matter of public perception of fly fishermen (especially us boo fishers) as being rich, snobbish, arrogant, etc... totally untrue but many that ask me
questions comment that they expected me to be different..... only ones I'm not nice to are the hostile ones (fortunately few but they usually get a
intentionally insulting response before I stroll away)
Sunset near a bed of cattails silent ripples running out from your bug as it plops gently at the edge. The swirl and plop of a bass taking the bug maybe heard and felt as much as seen as the gloaming deepens. And to hand IMHO a bass in its own hues of green or brown glistens just as prettily if not as brightly as a trout. A bluegill in his full deep colors bright and fresh is a wonder as well..... Life is too short for cheap scotch and plastic rods.
Last Edited By: Marty 03/19/2009 19:53.
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Slate Drake 9 |
#4 | |||
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I agree with NativeBrownie and have to add that I think bass fishing's reputation has been so damaged by the nascar like pro bass fishermen and "Billy
Bob" doing all of his redneck stuff whilst bass fishing that nobody wants to be paired with that image. Through this image it seems that I should have to
drink cheap beer while fishing and then crush the can on my forehead and wipe my mouth with my sleeve. All along trying not to dirty my best rebel flag
t-shirt.
I grew up with way more opportunities to fish for bass than trout, so I have a different opinion. I spent many days wading the shallow ends of lakes throwing poppers and watching bass explode on them. It's not watching a 20 inch brown gently sipping spinners, but still really exciting. As far as the cold/clear water thing, I have a different opinion. All of my smallmouth fishing has been done on waters that look just like a trout river. Usually they are the lower ends of the trout rivers I fish, just after they warm up some in the summer.
Fishing with bait is like swearing in church.
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rsagebrush |
#5 | |||
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All I know is wearing my 'Kickin Bass' teashirt looks silly on a Trout Stream.
Generally I use graphite for bass although when fishing the So. Branch of the Patomic about 25% of the fish I land are warmwater species and I am generally using a bamboo rod. I fish the So. Fork of the Shenandoah and rarely see another fly fisherman on that warmwater and the same goes for the James, although I have mostly fly fished for bass most of my adult life. Just as much fun a Trout fishing in my opinion and smallmouth are generally much more acrobatic and stronger than your average trout of the same size. Bass are also much longer lived than trout, I believe up to 16 years. I do believe there is plenty of literature 'er' rather instructional books of fly fishing for bass though. Not much poetry. |
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kimk |
#6 | |||
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It was not always so. Back when dinosaurs roamed the earth, I remember seeing more than a few sporting magazine covers with a fisherman clad in hippers, vest
and wide brimmed hat and a leaping bass on the end of his line. As has been pointed out, Bergman, McClane and many other writers fished bass and pike, and
walleye and just about any thing else that swims in the waters. But from their writings I get the feel that the way they went after bass was not that much
different than the way they went after trout. Not the techniques but the mind set. It was a world of earth tones and quiet contemplation, campfires and perhaps
a wee sip after a days fishing. Today bass has an image that is a bit NASCAR. Brightly colored jackets with lots of patches, bass boats that go faster than my
car and cost more, high tech gear, and (IMHO) worst of all "competition". I admit it is probably my failing but I just can not relate to
"competitive" fishin'.
But you and I know that is not what real bass fishing about. Real bass fishing is more likely to be about bouncing fly poppers off of lilly pads, from a beat up canoe, by the light of a full moon. And if your kids or a good friend are in the other end of the canoe -- well that is just as good as it gets. AgMD |
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sharps4590 |
#7 | |||
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Smallmouths are my favorite fish.
I think some of it has to do with where trout live as compared to where most bass live, especially the big ones. I remember reading an old book on "black bass" fishing in the North East. It seems the general consensus among the fishermen 100 years ago was that "black bass", (which the author said included both smallies and largemouth) were trash fish. Few people wrote much about bass fishing until probably the 50's. So, history and longevity are on the side of salmonids. Trout mostly live in beautiful places. There is a solitude that comes from those places that often causes one to reflect on the larger picture of life. Obviously a lot of those guys and gals have written about their experiences and the emotions elicited by those places and the fish brought to hand. To me there isn't much to give pause for reflection on a lake being baked by the sun on July day. It just doesn't appeal to me. That, and a trout fisherman often speaks in soft and respectful tones not just about the fish but the creeks, streams and rivers they fish on. I know a lot of bass fishermen and several of them talk about, "I'm gonna catch the biggest *#&@ bass in the lake today". That doesn't make for good copy. I'm not about to say there are no reflective bass fishermen.....there surely are, but I don't know any. Mostly probably difference in attitude and outlook between fishermen. Vic |
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David Dornblaser |
#8 | |||
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I don't know guys, up in the Upper Midwest we have some beautiful smallmouth water in northern MN, WI & MI. Simply gorgeous water. Nothing NASCAR about
them.
Speaking of NASCAR and BASS, I assume that everyone knows that the reason the rod length in the BASS tounaments is under 8'? It was because a fly fisher was kicking butt in the tournaments and they needed a rule to keep him out. With the new under 8' graphite bass rods, and cane rods, I would love to see a fly fisher enter a BASS tournament. Better yet, with a square stern canoe and a cane rod. - David www.UpperMidwestFlyFishing.com - fly fishing in the Upper Midwest. Spring Creeks to Smallies to Steelhead. |
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Chartist1 |
#9 | |||
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The young guys who work in the local fly shop actually prefer fly fishing for bass over trout......They do float trips on the Elkhorn creek near Georgetown
Kentucky. A couple guys just don't like fishing cold water.....I find fly fishing for bass a lot of fun and quite a bit easier than fishing trout. Bass
strike hard, they hook themselves.
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dshx |
#10 | |||
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All true-bass fishing lacks the historical chalkstream connection and has been tainted by tournament contest mentality but I find wandering weedbeds and
shallow flats after bass in early spring as pastoral as any trout fishing experience that arrives later. One of my most effective flies is a not a huge
rubber, multi-legged, casting hazard but a small damsel imitation (but I do like the explosive strikes that poppers invite).
I was out yesterday and here's a photo of a bass posing with a PHY, actually a Todd Young, Para 16 which to my mind makes for perfect bass rod but that's another topic. Yes, I know this is a just an excuse to post another fish photo. (sorry for the poor composition--I was shooting with a early generation Pentax WP Optio with very little anti-reflective coating so I can't see the small screen in bright light) --Dwight
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corlay.fiberglassflyro... |
#11 | |||
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maybe if Mr. Pitt was fishing in a lower, warmer stretch of that River;
things would have played o-out differently...<g> I, for one, don;t have much experience flyfishing for anything other than trout. But, over the past few summers; I've been tossing poppers to sunnies and LM basses at a friend's 2 acre pond. And it's a BLAST! The way I see it, when the dogs days of summer hit this year, I'm going to branch out and try the river smallie thing. It's gotta be better than: A.) not fishing cause the trout streams are all too low/warm B.) desperately fishing those low, warm streams and getting skunked
"From my observations I think that most of us spend too much time worrying about our tackle and too little time
learning the intimate characteristics of the fish and streams we fish most."
- Ray Bergman
Trout, New York: Knopf 1938 |
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gofish60 |
#12 | |||
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IMHO, a Smallmouth bass is as close to a trout (probably a Brownie, because they often inhabit the same waters) as any other fish out there. They are a real
experience, especially on trout tackle, and a 12" Smallie will usually make a 12" trout look pretty tame.
Love them both, for different reasons. They're both great fish gofish |
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TnTom |
Dang Backwoods Bass Catchers!!!!!! | #13 | ||
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We got some pretty nice Bass water here in Middle Tn. There is Dale Hollow for record Smallies. That's some big water for me and I don't seems to feel
comfortable in my square stern 18' Grumman. I was watching some bass tourney on the tube this evening and told my wife I was going to tune up may paddles.
She just laughed.
Seriously, floating the stained water small rivers and streams and hunting Smallies is my favorite. I just started Trout fishing last fall and started tying. I actually am catching Trout. Great fun. Im tying up Clousures and Muddlers and am getting ready cause next week it should start. Smallies and other creek varieties will be getting hungry. If you ever catch a Redeye (some say its just a stressed out Smallmouth...not true) its the fight in a small creek you'll never forget. They get mad. The fight is unreal. They love to jump and get all over the place. This will be my first venture for Smallies with bamboo and I'm really getting excited about the up coming season. I stay off the big water and wade small streams most are gin clear and Smallies lay in cracks and crevices. By middle summer the water can be quite low, nice and hot and the thick green canopy helps make for nice day. I don't really care too much for Largemouth usually means (not always) getting onto the more prominent rivers and resorvoirs. The big boats, wakes, jet skis and Bubba make for a not so fun day regardless. ![]() ![]() ![]()
If you ever get in this neck of the woods give me a holler I can show you some fun creeks to wade. No Dueling Banjoes I promise (well not that I'm aware of). Come On Jr. Its time for Bristol !!! River Smallies.com
Last Edited By: TnTom 03/20/2009 02:29.
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mmorris236 |
#14 | |||
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I think it is pretty simple, actually. Trout fishing has a long and storied European history as the sport of Kings, not because it was a Kingly Sport (which it
is) but because only royalty and landed gentry were allowed to partake. In the US many took it up because of that Mentality, the hanging with royalty rush.
Into the late 1800's and ear;y 20th century and prior to the introduction of the Brown Trout most of the productive Trout watrers in the US were
privatized, owned by a few of the very rich and reserved for them alone. Think Upper Beaverkill, only for every trout stream you know. These were men not only
of means but also of liesure, with college educations and a tradition of writing bad prose. They were also a lot like our current Hollywood crowd, very much
interested in telling the world how wonderful they were. They were pretty much transplanting the European private preserve mentality into the US. The
introduction of the Brown Trout changed that and probably saved trout fishing for the rest of us. It so vastly increased the number of trout waters available
that the Robber barons simply could not buy it all up. It made trout available to pretty much everybody, who, being human, equated their new found freedom to
once again chase the Trout to the upper class society that had monolpolized it for so long. We see that continue to this day, in many respects. Just look at
any Orvis or LL Bean catalog, or the older Abercrombie and Fitch catalogs. House of Hardy holds much of its allure because of its history with British Nobility
(and they make a pretty decent line holder).
Bass, on the other hand, was what was left over for the common rabble, and with a few noted exceptions, was held in some contempt, kinda like carp (and I know a few proffesional Trout and Steelhead guides who consider Carp on the fly the toughest, most difficult to catch and hardest fighting gamefish out there, preferring them over Salmon!!). That blue collar reputation continues. That being said, all of the great fly fishers of the 50's, 60's and 70's all raved about bass (Bergman, McClane, Brooks etc.), but wrote almost exclusively about trout. As to the Nascar aspect, so what? There is competitive Trout Fishing as well, just no boats. There is also about 17,193 times as much bass water as there is trout water and only 861 times as many Bass fisherman as trout fisherman, any way you do the math there are FAR FAR fewer bass fisherman per square foot of water than there are trout fisherman. If you only count wild trout waters, that ratio skyrockets. I have said it before, but lets make the comparison. Over 90% of the members of this board live within a 30 minute drive of at least one (most will be close to several several) stream, river, lake or pond where they can reasonably expect to hook and land a Bass of over 5 lbs every time they fish. How many here live within that distance of water where they could catch a Wild Trout of half or even a quarter that size? And I stuck in wild for a reason. ALL bass fishing is for wild fish. And while smallies do live in pretty warm water, they prefer cold running water, and are found in river systems well up into Canada. So for me, it has always been Trout in Spring, Bass all summer and Fall. If I had to count days, even though I am an avid trout guy and live close to some nice wild waters and tailwater systems, i probably fish for Bass 8 to 10 times as often as I do trout. |
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fishbum |
#15 | |||
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Take a look at a map of the northeast corner of Indiana. One of fly fishings best kept secrets. What few lakes and streams have trout in them are all planted.
Much more fun fishing for wild bass and bluegills. A big bluegill can be hard to find but there is no greater pleasure than catching 10" plus bluegills on a 4 weight fly rod. I tie flies for some of the bait and tackle stores around the area and I can tell you this, I don't tie trout flies. Says something for the popularity of fishing for bass and bluegills. We should not forget the white bass, pearch, crappies, rock bass, google eyes, red ears, pike, muskie, walleye and the list goes on. All of these fish are worthy opponants on a fly rod. Why limit yourself to just trout? fishbum |
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thegubster |
#16 | |||
fishbum wrote: W/o elaboratin'....I couldn'a said it better! I love the warmwater species as much as trout! Different species is all and both have much to offer. Much!! Jeremy. |
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WatercolorMan |
#17 | |||
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I like bass fishing as well. I haven't been doing it that often but Bulldogs photos have been a great reminder. I get the same rush when any fish comes to
to top and hits my fly.
Here in California we have some of the best bass fishing in the world. Now that I own a bass pond I have started to go after them more often. We also have a great stream full of Smallies and the lake by my house has huge Strippers that I keep thinking about going after. I still seem to end up standing in a trout stream, we have a year around open season on lots of our streams. As a watercolor artist and outdoors man I've got Winslow Homer Watercolors on top of my list as the best ever. Around 1903-05 he spent his winters in Florida. Some of his best painting ever were done there. He did several paintings fishing for Black Bass. These paintings were a logical development from his earlier paintings of the Adirondacks and his Quebec paintings. Alan |
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TnTom |
#18 | |||
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I think when Bass fishing is the topic most visualize Skeeter Bass boats and big money tournament fishing. The coverage is huge. I enjoy seeing more emphasis
on fly fishing for bass like on WFN. What I am encountering on some waters here in middle Tn are land owners especially along the Harpeth River a great
Smallmouth stream having folks arrested for trespassing when caught wading. The fine is about $500.00. It really makes you think about how far down stream you
might go and whether you might go at all. When I go on the Harpeth I canoe and don't drop the anchor. It has become understood that if you don't touch
bottom your not in violation of tresspassing. It doesn't make for a relaxing day on the river ,and worse when on a nice Smallmouth stream. We had an
unwritten law that on non-navigatable waterways the bottom and natural waterline were public domain. No longer the case and challenged in the local courts and
fines are now given if someone reports the tresspassor.
I dont know about other states and how they look at this problem but those streams that run through public property, parks and such offer great Smallmouth fishing almost as challenging as Trout fishing and what really makes it even more fun is often both habitat the same stream. At risk of offending I'll just add a note as to why the tresspassing became such an issue. It was reported that certain folks were using sceins and nets thus stripping streams of great numbers of bass and trout. The TWRA was called and Immigration was called and no one would stop it until one of the better Bass streams was ruined. While I was canoeing and wading I came upon a "party" netting. Passing a bottle of vodka and Tequila around. There were about a dozen people with 3 people holding gunny sacks full of fish being carried along. I headed back out and when I got in cell range called the TWRA and reported it. The land owners finally said say off our property and said so at the point of a gun. It was a very scary thing knowing what the out come could have been. That particular water isn't worth fishing any longer even with permission. Sorry to bum ya out and probably shouldn't have brought it up. I really love the streams and fishing them, Trout or Bass, I don't think there can be a more peaceful day.
Last Edited By: TnTom 03/20/2009 23:06.
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cyangler |
#19 | |||
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I think some of the bias is due to the not-so-much-now but not-too-distant idea propagated that smallmouth in cooler climes, more noted for trout, were
introduced - and something of an invasive species - thus competing with native trout and reducing their numbers where the native trout were once more
plentiful. But, as noted by others here, smallmouths generally prefer and are commonly found in waters occupied by other temperature tolerant species such as
brown trout and some rainbows. The water that smallmouths do well in that are also occupied by less temperature tolerant salmonids are for the most part
artificially maintained by the stocking of reared "native" strains and often represent put and take fishing. Fortunately, many management
programs are more selective in where they mix and match or choose to manage as wild fisheries. Many river systems seem perfectly at ease with a variety of
species along their flow and manage this mix naturally on their own. I for one am quite happy with that. IMO when trout become less prominent while smallies
appear on the increase, it is often more the result of altered stream ecology, such as less shade or restriction of cold feeds resulting from adjacent
construction. The poor bass is a scapegoat for poor planning. A great fish. I enjoy fishing for them and have caught more 15" smallies on number 14 Mays
than on poppers and streamers combined! And, my share of 12" bluegill and crappie on cane. I agree, these fish deserve more praise.
Last Edited By: cyangler 03/24/2009 17:06.
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teter |
#20 | |||
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NASCAR, bass boats, yada yada. Enough with the class generalizations.
We all bristle at the idea that fly fishing is a sport of elitists --I have lost count of the disparaging remarks about "yuppies' and 'The Movie" and so on, to the point where anyone who has taken up fly fishing in the last 20 years is under suspicion of being a phony. And yet we seem to want to throw rocks frequently at the great mass of fishermen, who use bait or hardware but whose license purchases account for far more conservation funds than ours do. I have fished for more than 50 years, the bulk of those throwing bait or hardware for bass, catfish and bluegulls. It was only about 10 years ago that I started fly fishing intensely, and naturally, since trout were the one thing I could hardly ever fish for while growing up, they were the fish I was most interested in catching with a fly rod. Imagamine my pleasant surprise when I realized later that I could catch bass on a light fly rod -- I can't say I like bass better than trout, but I sure don't like them less. When I was a kid in Kansas 45 or so years ago, the people we heard about who had fly rods were mostly guys who fished for trout in Colorado and Missouri -- I know my grandfather fished with a fly rod for bass, but I just thought he was being exotic, since he also had a steel baitcasting rod and that was more my style back then. He died in 1973, at the age of 81, and it's probably a good thing that he didn't see the slobs fishing today, though I'm sure he encountered his share,even then. Bad behavior among fishermen is widespread. I won't deny that it is more prevalent among the meat and metal fishermen, but trust me, there are plenty of slobs in the fly world -- I had one guy cheerfully stomp his way through my run just last week, and I was so stunned by his apparent lack of consciousness of what he was doing that I just watched him go through (I got over it because the fish started hitting my flies like crazy moments after he left-- come to think of it, maybe he was the answer to the prayer that I said after the first three fishless hours). Say what you will about bass tournaments, but I believe that the organizations that sponsor them have gone a long way toward planting a catch-and-release ethic in waters where such a thing never existed. That's progress, isn't it? Believe me, when I was a kid, a full stringer was a status symbol. Sure was for my grandpa. Sorry for my rambling. I just get tired of the sniping. Back to the original question; It's a tie between wild brook trout and smallmouth bass.
Last Edited By: teter 03/21/2009 00:23.
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