Wow very interesting!! Amazing when I think that all of those reels are likely to still be fished when they are 150 yrs old if maintained. Designed w/o
modern high tech calulators and computers. Built by hand w/o cnc machines.......... pretty cool concept and part of why I enjoy fishing them....
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"Perfect" Perfect?
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 Marty |
#21 | |||
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Posts: 109 04/02/2009 19:05 |
Life is too short for cheap scotch and plastic rods.
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stefanduma |
#22 | |||
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Posts: 93 04/02/2009 19:24 |
How old is that reel Mark and does it have a name?
Percy Scott mentions rollers as an option in his 1911 patent. |
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RPL |
#23 | |||
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Posts: 175 04/02/2009 19:31 |
Turtledoc: Those roller bearings represent great execution of an impressive concept. Who, may I ask, was the maker and about when was it made? Appears to be
a demanding and expensive design, but not surprised to read that the reel still works smoothly.
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turtledoc |
#24 | |||
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Posts: 2552 04/02/2009 20:29 Moderator |
The reel is the earliest Bogdan that I own and is a prototype made by Stanley Bogdan in about 1945 and though somewhat crude compared to his final design, it
is still IMHO an amazing reel.......but then again, I am VERY biased
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Here are a couple other pics of it. Sorry to have led this thread off of the original topic of Perfects....... Mark B 
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 reelmaker |
#25 | |||
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Posts: 95 04/02/2009 20:55 |
Mark,,,Just gotta ask the obvious question.....If roller bearings or ballbearings were so critical to great reels, why didn't one of the greatest high
quality reel makers in the world, Stan Bogdan,,,continue to use them, like he did in that prototype, in all of the hundreds and hundreds of reels he has made
ever since that are so cherished and well used on all the great salmon rivers of the world? Every summer I fish at a well known salmon camp on a big fish
Quebec river that has a set of Stan B reels made in the A&F days...they are "guest camp" reels that have been used and abused for 40 plus years
and have caught hundreds of big salmon....none of them have roller or ball bearings....they still work as well as the day they were made,.,,
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turtledoc |
#26 | |||
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Posts: 2553 04/02/2009 21:06 Moderator |
Hey Paul -
Very good question and I have often wondered the same thing since the prototype that I have of a similar style but with the single brake shoe circa 1946 does not have roller bearings and is just as smooth operating as the one with rollers.......so my guess is Stan realized very soon that for the style of reel he was making there was not a noticeable benefit to having the rollers? I know from experience that your reels and the final design Bogdans certainly don't need roller bearings or ball bearings to be smooth........
Regarding the perfect style reels though........I am no engineer, but IMHO the perfect style reels that I have handled with ball bearings feel smoother than the ones I have handled without ball bearings, so it either comes down to an unreal mental perception of the balls making the perfect reel smoother, OR is it a case of that style of reel really benefiting from the balls and the feeling of being smoother operating is genuine? Mark B p.s. - I can about imagine Stan grumbling about those rollers being a pain in the #%@ and vowing never to make another 
Last Edited By: turtledoc 04/02/2009 21:10.
Edited 2 times.
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Akroyd |
#27 | |||
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Posts: 57 04/03/2009 08:28 |
The roller bearings in your Bogdan are known as a Needle Bearing. Needle bearings offer very high allowable speeds, but have no ability to support a side
load. They are very frequently used in high speed engine components in one form or another. Needle bearings also require very high precision machining to
function properly, if their is slop between the cylinders and the shaft, they will not last long at all. An interesting concept for sure, but I would imagine
it being troublesome if they were exposed to any kind of dirt or debris from a dunking.
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mallard210green |
#28 | |||
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Posts: 10 04/04/2009 15:18 |
Does this one count? Pre 1908 Silent check perfect, 3" size, Red Agate line Guard, original block leather case.
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RPL |
#29 | |||
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Posts: 176 04/04/2009 18:19 |
mallard210green -- That's one heck of a reel! A truly beautiful piece of metal (and agate)! At the risk of causing discomfort to gray matter in certain
Forum members, I would like to take the liberty of making several observations. In addition to the overall A+ aesthetics, the drag gear/disk, perhaps because
of the silent check, seems to have more of a cup shape, in contrast to the almost flat gear surface on more recent Perfects. Perhaps that cup shape helps to
ease the radial as well as axial thrust as it turns on the relatively large bearings. Whereas the flat drag gear on more recent Perfects makes contact with
the bearings, which I think might be relatively smaller, in a way that eases axial pressure almost exclusively.
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flyslinger |
#30 | |||
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Posts: 110 04/04/2009 19:13 |
Oh my! I think I'm in lust. Again.
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WestSlope |
Flyslinger you should be! | #31 | ||
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Posts: 722 04/06/2009 03:00 |
Mallard210green,
What an amazing reel and probably one of the rarest Perfect's I have seen! What I think we have here is a prototype. The fact that it's a 3in silent check Perfect is even more amazing, could be 1 of 1. The normal prototype came in at 3-1/2" and lacked a counter balance and red agate line guide. I remember hearing about this reel but this is the the first I have seen on it! If this is the case this would be in fact "The Perfect, Perfect" indeed and at auction could bring in the 15K to 18K range from the serious Hardy collector! Please see Drewett's book page 156. Very nice reel!!! I would be interested to hear what my English counter parts have to say! 
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stefanduma |
#32 | |||
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Posts: 94 04/06/2009 17:50 |
WestSlope wrote: I had a long chat with John last Monday when we spoke about prototype reels in general and what constitutes a prototype. I think that he would now say that this silent check perfect was not a prototype as we now know of at least 3 of these reels. The one illustrated on page 156 was the first one to surface and I sat next to him when he bought it many years ago at auction at the old Stockbridge auctions of first Pearsons and then Evans & Partridge. There is no doubt that it is certainly a very rare and valuable reel. |
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mallard210green |
silentt check perfect | #33 | ||
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Posts: 11 04/06/2009 19:01 |
But I believe that the other examples that you are talking about were all reels in the three and five eigth inch size,do you know of a three inch model
surfacing?
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FlymanDan |
#34 | |||
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Posts: 257 04/06/2009 22:36 |
W.O.W....WOW that is an amazing piece of lineage you have there! Thank you for sharing the pictures with us as it is truly a treat to see.
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WestSlope |
#35 | |||
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Posts: 724 04/06/2009 23:34 |
Hello Stefan;
How have you been it's been a long time from the last time we had spoke and thanks for chiming in here in regard to this reel. Any info you can continue to produce re: Silent Check Perfect of the 3in type would be much appreciated. I think the 3 reels you spoke of are of the larger size if I am not mistaken and lack the counter balance with red agate. So this takes us back to square one, most likely a one off reel. The Man that originally owned this reel received the reel direct from Hardy back in the day. Again please keep us posted on this mystery reel. At this point I'm thinking it must be a prototype when you take into consideration all the differences in the reel -vs- the 3 reels spoken about and the photo on page 156 of John's book. Take Care! |
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stefanduma |
#36 | |||
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Posts: 96 04/07/2009 06:12 |
WestSlope wrote: Hi Rick, I'm fine just started to settle in to my new place and I will start to unpack the boxes of reels, catalogues, books and other associated items of ephemera that people accumulate over the years. I have even managed to get some book shelves up and get most of the reference books up. This Silent Check Perfect is a rare reel with 3 known sizes. The catalogue states 3 5/8 inches and was only available for 3 years and I have seen and handled two of these reels. John Drewetts reel is now I know a prototype, due to the amount of experimentation, 3 1/2 inch made for Charles Hardy for what could have been a standard production run. I handle this reel at the auction when originally sold and again a few years ago when discussing some obscure point that has over time been lost on me. The reel here with the red agate and counterbalance is I think a 3 1/8 inch model, carefully measuring is required as they can differ slightly. Remember these were hand made reels and many times I have thought I have acquired a rare one off special size only to find it falls in between two sizes. John does mention the fact that he has seen a 3 1/8 inch reel. So we have two models of the 3 1/8 inch and this one has been fitted with red agate and a counterbalance. Not a problem to a company who would do anything provided you could pay. Looking at the reel it apears that the original owner did not fit the cork arbour option. |
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stefanduma |
#37 | |||
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Posts: 97 04/07/2009 06:16 |
mallard210green wrote: CAn you measure it with a vernier? |
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mallard210green |
Silent Perfect | #38 | ||
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Posts: 12 04/07/2009 09:18 |
Stefan,This is a true 3" reel,measured with a micrometer, Their is no doupt !
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