An ethics question

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jz2	An ethics question		Lead	[-]
Posts: 196 04/10/2009 02:22	Tags : None I looking for a sense of the community on something that happened to me the last few days. I purchased a 2 5/8ths robichaud reel - on the auction site - and paid a slight premium because it was exactly the size I needed for a spare spool I have. I've been looking for a reel this size for 4 years. Imagine my disappointment when the reel that arrived was a 3" model. I exchanged emails with the seller, who could not have been more concerned and proactive. He'd sold two robi's simultaneously, but mixed up the boxes and shipped mine to the other buyer. When he contacted the other buyer to correct the problem, the buyer refused to return the reel. My seller offered to pay all the postage, to get him the 3" reel he'd purchased, and offered a token discount to offset the trouble and still the guy who has my reel refuses to return it. Financially, I will be okay, because the seller is a stand up guy and will make a full refund including postage. That doesn't alleviate my aggravation. Now here's the question - is the guy who got my reel right in keeping it? What would you do if you were in his situation? what would you do if you were in mine? Last Edited By: jz2 04/10/2009 15:57. Edited 1 time.
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BobS		#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1057 04/10/2009 06:17	I don't think the guy who got your reel is right in keeping it. I think he's taking advantage of an honest mistake. If I were he, I'd return the reel for the one I'd paid for. Assuming you don't want the reel you got, your best course is to return it for a refund.
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HOOKEDONTROUT		#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 70 04/10/2009 06:32	jz2 Sorry to here about your dilemma. First, I tip my hat to the seller for trying to correct the situation. If it were me, I would have returned the reel without hesitation. I don't think it's right to keep the reel but the decision has been made so try to forget about it. It's not worth the aggravation. If you really want the other reel then return the reel you have and wait for another opportunity. Unfortunately our world is full of unscrupulous people. Another opportunity will come and you'll get the reel you wanted. Hang in there and have a great Easter!!! Tom
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WestSlope	No ethics at all.	#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 726 04/10/2009 06:41	You have every right to be upset! The person that received your reel should return it. This is outside the brotherhood of fly fishing and what goes around comes around. Sounds like the seller is trying to make it right but not sure he can do much after the sale is done? Now with that said I'll be on the look out for a 2-3/4 Robi with removable back plate for you. I'm sure you know some Robi's were made with a fixed back plate and interchanging a spool is not possible. That's just too long to be waiting for your dream reel. Can't promise you anything but they do come around or maybe from this post someone will step up and sell you a nice 2-3/4 Robi. Send me an email so I can make a note of your needs! Good Luck! Rick D. Sorensen Westslopefly.com
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jeffkn1		#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1838 04/10/2009 08:00	Hats off to the seller. A thousand curses to the other buyer, about whom the seller should file a complaint directly to ebay. Jim, if the seller is willing to give up the buyer's ebay name I'd like to add it to my blocked bidders list. First, see if you can sell him your spare spool. g
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Whitefish Press		#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 277 04/10/2009 08:07 Sic transit piscatoria Clark's	In no way, shape or form is the guy who has the wrong reel and is keeping it in the right. This is just ridiculous. In a perfect world you could drive over and take care of it face-to-face. The seller made a mistake and tried to correct it. I too have had the wrong reel mailed to me on more than one occasion, and every time it was a simple and painless process to get it into the right hands. Ridiculous. This makes my blood boil. -- Dr. Todd
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pcg		#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2587 04/10/2009 08:13 Admin	Buyer is wrong to refuse to return the reel. The seller inadvertently sent the wrong item. There is no justification for him keeping it. On an exaggerated scale, can you imagine what would happen if a buyer purchased a used 2003 BMW. The salesman volunteers to drop the vehicle off at the buyer's house. On the appointed day the salesman is sick, and asks an associate to drive it over for him. The associate drives over a new 2009 5-series, mixing up sales receipts. The next day the dealership discovers the error, calls the buyer and hears, "No way. It's mine." Given the scale & value of the car, the buyer would next be visited by a burly policeman with an arrest warrant. Ever heard of grand theft? There's no difference except in the value of the items. The moral and legal issues are identical.
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ttrotter		#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1020 04/10/2009 08:25 Moderator	What everyone else has said! The buyer who received the wrong reel is as lousy as they come, imho. I hope he loses a lot of sleep over it, but alas, he won't. Tom
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RPL		#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 183 04/10/2009 09:37	The buyer is ethically wrong to keep the reel, especially in view of the seller's attempts to recover it, but ethics might be an alien concept on the devil's playground. In another context, the seller probably would have grounds to open a legal case to recover the reel. The devil's playground may have specific rules and procedures for cases like this. What if the seller mistakenly sent you a 5 carat diamond instead of the reel? Would you be obligated under the rules to return it? On the other hand, the seller in this case might be guilty of negligence in not having ensured he was sending the right reels to his customers, which caused the problem in the first place. "Human error," you might say, but the negative consequences of human error are the responsibility of the person who erred, as is the case in traffic accidents. To counter the unethical behavior by the other buyer, it would be ethically proper for the seller to try to make restitution for your loss, and his capacity to do so is dependent on the legal framework, such as it is, of the devil's playground. He might not be in a position to do anything. I'm not familiar with the rules. jz2, it might be up to you just to forgive all parties, especially on this day of forgiveness in one of the worlds great religions, with the hope that something good may come of all this.
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PkwyAngler		#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 212 04/10/2009 11:11	JZ2 Regret to read your sad tale regarding your dream reel. The buyer of the 3" reel is a discredit to our hobby & gentle sport. It is unethical for him to keep the reel that he did not contract to buy when a simple shipping error was made by seller. This action doesn't speak kindly to the moral integrity of this buyer. I sure hope this individual is not a member of this forum. The seller has been forthright in attempting to remedy his error. I often recall the phrase, "A man's word is his bond", and in this case the seller surely seems to exude such sentiments through his actions. You should return the 3" reel for full refund, unless you desire it, and continue to enjoy living your dream of finding that 2 ¾" model Robi with removable back to complement your spare spool. Good Luck! … And keep the faith!!
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mattcliff	Not just an ethics question	#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 100 04/10/2009 11:41	It's not just a matter of ethics. The other guy is actually legally obligated to return the reel. It is not the reel he contracted to purchase. He has no legal right to capitalize on the seller's mistake. I would definitely pursue this with the playground staff. They have lawyers working for them. Obviously you can't sue the guy because of practical considerations, but they surely have remedies available. The paper trail established by the various messages sent by you, the seller, and the thief should be helpful. Last Edited By: mattcliff 04/10/2009 11:46. Edited 1 time.
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Pete from MA		#11	[url]	[-]
Posts: 32 04/10/2009 11:44	its possible the person who received your reel may not appreciate what he has...and simply thinks he might be getting scammed. Maybe the Seller could give you his contact information so that you could talk "fisherman to fisherman" I agree that this is inconsistent with the "brotherhood of fishermen" & like many of us he may not trust ebay ... right now he has a decent Robi in hand and he may not want to jeapordaize it. Also its possible the Seller just may not be an effective communicator, after all from his perspective he has his money & the deal is done. Last Edited By: Pete from MA 04/10/2009 11:46. Edited 1 time.
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BooWho		#12	[url]	[-]
Posts: 13 04/10/2009 12:24	That's why it's important to only purchase items from sellers who have great feedback. The same issue happened to me with a fly rod. Seller was a stand-up guy and we got it resolved. The sellers are motivated to make things right because their rating is like gold.
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JJZ		#13	[url]	[-]
Posts: 39 04/10/2009 14:13	It sour's the heart to hear of such a lousy experience. A kindrid spirit would certainly return what is not his to the rightful owner. While being dissappointed through a scorned action, it must be music to your ears that a fella board member would kick-up the dust and help track down another......There are wonderful people who post here. Bad karma will follow that fisherman who carries that reel......I believe in these thing's.
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Flyman615	Ethics cont'd	#14	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3187 04/10/2009 17:07	If the buyer of the 3-inch Robi has had the situation carefully explained by the seller--which appears to be the case--and he still refuses to cooperate, then it's not an ethics question at all--because he has none. As far as I'm concerned, and as the old saying goes, you're either pregnant or you're not. Likewise, you're either ethical in your dealings, or you are not. Lastly, I believe all of us will, at one time or another, sadly have to deal with someone just like this. Fortunately, in dealing with fellow Forum members, it is much less likely. Best, Flyman
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tiptop		#15	[url]	[-]
Posts: 534 04/10/2009 17:51	I believe that the seller should contact the auction site and request that they step in. It's quite possible that they would require the buyer to return the reel. Realistically speaking the only leverage they would have would be the threat of suspending his ability to buy or sell, but that might be enough incentive for him to return the reel. Good luck!
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Flykuni2		#16	[url]	[-]
Posts: 50 04/10/2009 18:11	Sound like your only recourse. The guy is a dope and a half. What if roles were reversed and he had received the wrong item? Bet he'd be screaming for blood.
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jz2		#17	[url]	[-]
Posts: 198 04/10/2009 18:19	Here's an update. The 3" robi is on its way back to the seller. He's been stand-up throughout. The other buyer was a direct sale, not through the auction site, so there is no leverage there. The seller passed an email from me to person who got my 2 5/8" reel. I have not heard from that person and don't expect to. As others have pointed out, the fish gods will probably mete out some bad karma to that buyer to balance the system. And I am back on the hunt for a 2 5/8th inch lhw robi. with the removable back option. Your responses remind me that even though I can't control how others operate, its important that I am always scrupulous in my dealings thanks for your input.
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JimmyB11		#18	[url]	[-]
Posts: 62 04/10/2009 19:02	Jz2 I sent you a private message.
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MontyMontana	John, Oh John could you lend a hand?	#19	[url]	[-]
Posts: 493 04/10/2009 19:14	Just ask yourself what John Wayne would do? Shoot the Bum. Monty Montana...sorry to hear of your problems....aren't humans fun to deal with? Your Signature ... I fish via our criminal justice system..."Catch and release"
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Marty		#20	[url]	[-]
Posts: 122 04/10/2009 19:21	Sad to say that being a gentleman is no longer in style. And you can no longer just go have discussion with them out back as was once perfectly normal and acceptable. Manners and honor have been on a steady decline for some time. Keep hoping for the pendulum to swing the other way. But, by and large the fraternity of fly fishers is mostly populated with honorable and decent people the exceptions do exist. Fortunately people like that eventually become known and appropriately ostracized. Good luck in your hunt!!!!!!! Life is too short for cheap scotch and plastic rods. Tight Lines!!! -M
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An ethics question

An ethics question