An ethics question

0 Kudo

Author	Comment
PaducahMichael		#21	[url]	[-]
Posts: 568 04/10/2009 19:36	MontyMontana wrote: Just ask yourself what John Wayne would do? Shoot the Bum. Monty Montana...sorry to hear of your problems....aren't humans fun to deal with? Gather up the brothers, Monty, like "Sons of Katie Elder" and lets go get 'em. The New Divine Rods
Interact My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post
bearbutt	Amy's Law	#22	[url]	[-]
Posts: 266 04/11/2009 09:47	My wife Amy has a way of describing situations like these: she calls it "Amy's Law." You know Murphy's law?-of course: if things can go wrong, they will. Amy's Law is a little like this. It goes: if people can be assholes, they will. I know it sounds a little uncouth-but when a pretty and dignified woman gets uncouth, you know that a serious moral issue is at stake. bb
Interact My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post
BlackHillsBill		#23	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2725 04/11/2009 09:54	jz2 said he was looking for a sense of the community regarding this bozo's ethical lapse. He's certainly got it, ending with (for heaven's sake!) an apology from gofish, in a thread that already has run the gamut from lamentations about the decline of Western civilization to scalping chants to reveries about about drawing and quartering and other gentle sorts of vengeance. As the world is now run a few people just seem to slip under the radar escaping all our outraged calls for remorse and even our most reasonable programs for reform. In such instances during my three score and fifteen, I have discovered the most satisfying response is to put a curse upon the offender--the more fiendishly or poetically imaginative the better. For instance, once while fishing a favorite pond in the Black Hills, I evidently dropped a flybox chock-full of nymphs which it took me the whole winter to tie. Another fisher had started to work the stretch I had just vacated. So I walked back to him and asked politely if he'd happened to find a Wheatley box overflowing with nymphs whose patterns I described in loving detail. Although he said "Nope," I couldn't help but observe the bulge in his vest that measured out in my mind's eye to the exact size of my lost box. (John Wayne might have said "Nope," but surely not when his code of honor required "Yep.") This taciturn rogue clearly wasn't inclined to further conversation. I, however, had several things I was itching to say, including "Is that a nymph case you have in your pocket, or do you just like me?" Instead I opted for a curse Dad sometimes used and said it silently to myself. I liked thinking of the curse so much and the vivid imagery of suffering it invoked for conscienceless scoundrels everywhere that there was a lilt in my wadered step as I walked away. I'm not sure it was an ethical lilt.
Interact My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post
teter		#24	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1284 04/11/2009 10:18	The recipient of the wrong reel who refuses to give it up is a rotten bastard and I hope his identity gets around. I'm with Mattcliff; this is a legal matter. As in criminal. If the item went through the U.S. mail, it's a matter for the postal inspectors. I believe, however, that since the seller is the one who incurred the financial loss, it would be up to him to file a complaint.
Interact My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post
Short Tip		#25	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1069 04/11/2009 10:18 Moderator	Hi Bill, it's nice to see you back. One thing has been overlooked - perhaps the other buyer is also invoking Amy's Law. Picture this, you buy a reel from a guy you don't know, through the mail, it's not exactly as described but what the hell. He gets in touch, saying "You know that reel? I made a mistake - send it back and I'll send ya the right one". My willingness to do this would depend heavily on my comfort level with the original transaction. (I'm not making any judgements regarding this seller or transaction, just a general thing........) Many sellers fail to recognize their role/risk in a transaction. When I see a seller demanding extra money for paypal fees, saying "no returns", or advertising other buyer unfriendly things, I take my money elsewhere. Again, I'm not saying this is the case here, but who knows?
Interact My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post
oneculm		#26	[url]	[-]
Posts: 520 04/11/2009 10:26	A little off this topic but; Bill I am very happy you made it thru the winter and are back. dave
Interact My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post
LEO		#27	[url]	[-]
Posts: 96 04/11/2009 12:28	Gentlemen, I see this situation from a more fundamental perspective: the fellow who got jz2's reel did not pay for it. This miscreant bought, and paid for, a different reel. He is aware of the discrepancy, but he has refused all forms of redress. This is rather cut and dry... if you report it to the auction site, and file a dispute, they will do everything within their power to provide proper restitution (your reel). Call the dispute hot-line at 1-866-643-3720. I have no doubt that the seller will be required to initiate the discourse, but they will request your input. This fellow is, for lack of a better word, a thief. Don't let him get away with it. LEO
Interact My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post
Blue Quill		#28	[url]	[-]
Posts: 85 04/11/2009 14:59	I agree with Leo; he didn't pay for the reel he recieved. If the seller sent the reel in error, then notified him that the reel was sent in error and wants it returned, and he refuses to return it, it is a postal crime. The transaction alone doesn't validate ownership; it is a combination of the right of the transaction and the intent of the transaction. If you legitimately purchase a car through legally accepted buyer/seller protocol, and it later turns out to be a stolen car, you don't own the car. And if a check is mailed to you that is not intended for you, it's not your money. Similarly, if you order and pay for a 20" color TV, and the next day the UPS driver drops off a 60" plasma TV, you don't own the 60" TV. Now, is it worth pressing the issue and complicating someones life over a used fishing reel? That's between the seller and the buyer, and if the seller was compensated in full then probably not. However I feel bad for JZ2 because I know how it feels. We live in a world where more and more people have replaced ethical responsibility with legal precedent. More often it's not "Should I do it?" but, "Can I legally do it?". Honorable men befriend honorable men. Chuck
Interact My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post
PYochim		#29	[url]	[-]
Posts: 647 04/11/2009 17:57	LEO wrote: This fellow is, for lack of a better word, a thief. He doesn't consider himself a thief. He (or she) considers himself (or herself) an entrepreneur.
Interact My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post
Chartist1		#30	[url]	[-]
Posts: 327 04/11/2009 18:59	this is one of those posts that doesn't need to occur.....it's obvious, the other buyer is a real tool.
Interact My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post
LEO		#31	[url]	[-]
Posts: 98 04/11/2009 19:17	PYochim, I am certain that Bernard Madoff suffered the same delusion. LEO
Interact My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post
MontyMontana		#32	[url]	[-]
Posts: 494 04/12/2009 15:38	Blue Qulii wrote: Now, is it worth pressing the issue and complicating someones life over a used fishing reel? That's between the seller and the buyer, and if the seller was compensated in full then probably not. However I feel bad for JZ2 because I know how it feels. We live in a world where more and more people have replaced ethical responsibility with legal precedent. More often it's not "Should I do it?" but, "Can I legally do it?". I can certainly understand some folks feelings, but the reason our society has such a problem, is because we have become a society on enablers, to much work to track him down , not my problem, if it does not happen to me why should I care....this is a bad attitude, enabling jackass's to graze in green pastures while they should be eating dead cactus. If the seller and buyer wish to contact me with the information...I have available a virtual "Army" of associates in the security field....who would gladly recover said reel. (after 2 or 3 tours overseas they are getting restless for something to do.) This individual needs to be taught a lesson. Monty Montana cds13@verizon.net Your Signature ... I fish via our criminal justice system..."Catch and release"
Interact My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post
Zenkoanhead		#33	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1431 04/12/2009 20:14	Where was that college that switched the acceptances with the declination letters? Under this moron's theory, hey too bad, I'm going! There is no binding contract until the item supplied matches the item purchased. No such rule as "Finder's Keepers" for adults. Don
Interact My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post
freestoner.fiberglassflyro...		#34	[url]	[-]
Posts: 195 04/12/2009 22:43	Some ethical questions pose real dilemmas. Not this one. Is the guy who got my reel right in keeping it? No. What would you do if you were in his situation? Transfer it to you, no extra charge...o/c, you'd pay shipping and insurance. what would you do if you were in mine? shrug it off. it's a fishing reel. life is too short. I might want to know the name of the keeper just to file it for future reference, because someone who'd screw someone over like that might do something similarly dodgy again, the reel collecting world is relatively small, and you might have some forewarning if you crossed paths with the person regarding a future transaction of some sort. But I wouldn't press it. You might end up putting so much energy into it that you miss the next deal on one. And it's plain unhealthy to stay riled about it. We all can think of situations that call out for some sort of retribution, but I don't think this rises to that level. I know the feeling. Getting beat out on a deal by an eyelash hurts no matter how it's done, and there's no doubt that the unethical part adds a particularly sour taste. But it's about being over it by Thursday. Note: on reading some of the other responses, I wouldn't personally be averse to pursuing legal recourse. And if I were the seller, I'd certainly help you out. But it probably is dependent on the seller's active involvement, and without that, I'd just drive on. And I really don't know what form a pursuit of justice would take in this case...I'd say that it does fit the definition of theft to keep an item paid for by someone else, regardless of whether the buyer paid the seller money for a similar item. Still, it's pretty much axiomatic that legal disputes require time, energy, and attention that most anyone would prefer to spend on something else, if they didn't feel it was of surpassing importance. So that's a subjective call. "I can't not believe in a creator. The birds sing too beautifully and the trout are too speckled." John Martyn 1948-2009 Last Edited By: freestoner 04/12/2009 23:09. Edited 1 time.
Interact My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post
freestoner.fiberglassflyro...		#35	[url]	[-]
Posts: 199 04/13/2009 12:08	I'm not talking about a civil remedy, I'm talking about the Feds- as was brought up earlier in the discussion. Although who knows how long it would take, it might get put on the docket for around 2019. "I can't not believe in a creator. The birds sing too beautifully and the trout are too speckled." John Martyn 1948-2009
Interact My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post
freestoner.fiberglassflyro...		#36	[url]	[-]
Posts: 202 04/13/2009 23:43	I have ideas about what I want my Federal prosecution dollars doing, too...related to why it might take so long to get theft cases even more serious than that one on the docket. And also why so many cities in the US lack a Fraud unit in their police departments. Etc., etc. But I don't want to wander off-topic. I'm also one of those who said that it's just a fishing reel, and that it's questionable how far I would personally pursue such a case. Even if I had a fairly accurate idea of how rare a Robichaud 2 5/8" reel was, or how much it was worth- which I don't. Regardless, it's thievery for a buyer to receive an item other than the one contracted for in a purchase as the result of a seller's honest mistake, and refuse to give it back because it's more to one's liking, as if the mix-up was the result of divine providence. "I can't not believe in a creator. The birds sing too beautifully and the trout are too speckled." John Martyn 1948-2009
Interact My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post
jz2		#37	[url]	[-]
Posts: 200 04/14/2009 13:34	Hello All, thanks for you feedback, kind words and offers of reels - unfortunately still looking for the 2 5/8 ths. The seller made full refund and could not have been easier to deal with. I suggested that he list the reel here. It is in awesome condition, lhw, removable back and what I believe is an original drawstring bag. I was tempted to keep it, but I already have one in the same size, mine with the adjustable drag. If he lists it here and a board member buys it, I will send an alternate heavier drag spring at no charge.
Interact My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post
sinktip	Ethics	#38	[url]	[-]
Posts: 18 04/15/2009 11:23	Glad to hear that the seller provided a full refund and you are not out any cash. I know that most of the replies were hostile to the other buyer, but how about considering one of my prior experiences on a well-known auction site to get a possible view from the other side. Several years back, a seller was auctioning off 2 Richardson chest boxes (one with 3 trays and the other with 4 trays). I bid and won the 3 tray chest box and got what I considered an excellent deal. A box arrived promptly after I sent in my money order, but it was the 4 tray chest box. I did contact the seller immediately and noted the mistake. He told me that the other buyer backed out of the deal and that I could keep the 4 tray. I said OK, left positive feedback, and that was it. Well, 2 weeks later the seller contacted me and said that he just received payment from the other buyer and asked that I return the box and he would send the correct 3 tray design along with a full refund of the return shipping. He also said he would send 2 dozen flies for any inconvenience to me. I of course sent the 4 tray box back since that was the correct thing to do - right. After waiting 2 weeks, I contacted the seller and asked about my box. No reply. After several more attempts, I filed a complaint with the auction site and had to wait several more weeks. The auction site said the seller had delivery confirmation showing he sent the box and that I received it. I also left positive feedback. Done deal. So, at the end of the day, I was out over $100 with no chest box and the seller got some unearned cash. The internet brings out all types of scams. Last Edited By: sinktip 04/15/2009 15:28. Edited 2 times.
Interact My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post
recane1		#39	[url]	[-]
Posts: 177 04/15/2009 14:11	There is a reason that folks call it Satan's Flea Market. This is just one more example of why it is ok to spend a few dollars more to buy the item in person. Aaron
Interact My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post
canenut	Mail Fraud is mail fraud	#40	[url]	[-]
Posts: 610 04/16/2009 14:28	At the very least, the seller should let the auction site know about this and if pay-pal were used it can be disputed and the seller has recourse in feedback etc. If I felt strongly about it, I would file mail fraud charges just to muck it up for the schmuck that kept your reel. I know people are saying "life's short", but there is a simple principle regarding integrity and honesty here that must be enforced. Get his info from the seller and pester that turd until he dreads another call or e-mail from you and make him sad he stole your reel. Sign him up for all kinds of spam at car shows, gun shows etc! The trout takes the fly, the line tightens and it's like I was blind, but now I see.
Interact My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post

<< Previous Topic Next Topic >>

Yuku free message boards

An ethics question