Ed Pirie
West Topsham, Vermont
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Ed Pirie |
What about Grackles? |
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Hi: I have closely followed all the posts about the "North Country Spider" type flies and have been keenly interested in tying these flies. I have
been able to get a couple of starling skins and now I am wondering about grackles. I have a mess of them in my yard as well as starlings, but I cannot help to
notice the the beautifly black and metalic iridescent plumage on these grackles. If I were to thin the flock, I do not believe anyone will be the worse for
the wear. What is the verdict on the use of grackle hackle? Anyone tried it?
Ed Pirie West Topsham, Vermont
Last Edited By: Ed Pirie 04/19/2009 10:32.
Edited 1 time.
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slw |
grackles | #1 | ||
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As best I know, all the grackle species are federally protected as native American song birds. A quick web search indicates that some grackle species are
declining due to loss of habitat and human depredation because they're viewed as pests.
Starlings, on the other hand, are introduced from Great Britain and not protected. |
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Ed Pirie |
#2 | |||
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You are probably right, but someone ought to review that designation. They are more like a flying rat in my opinion. They have found a way to get into my roof
and I think they have a colony under the eaves. They are generally an obnoxious bird. They fly by and defecate on my windows. They appear to be more of the
crow family. I think this "songbird" disignation is way off base. And, I cannot see their numbers decreasing. I think I will knock some off anyway. I
will use a bb gun so it will be quiet. Once they are on a trout fly, who will know the difference. I think this "songbird" thing is a real stretch. I
had it in my head to thin them out before I mentioned it to you; now I wish I didn't ask. I think I will say they had an accident and flew into a tree
head-on.
Ed Pirie West Topsham, Vermont |
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riverwader |
I LIKE GRACKLES | #3 | ||
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Save the Grackles!
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slw |
GRACKLES | #4 | ||
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What's next? Woodpeckers? |
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Ed Pirie |
#5 | |||
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I fail to see what gives these Grackles any special privileges over a Starling. It should not be the coming from Europe bit, that just isn't right. After
all, we are a nation of immigrants. My grandparents came from Europe. It cannot be any sounds the Grackles make because there is just no sweetness to them. I
have already cited several non-redeeming virtues about these Grackles. They are not thought of fondly in my village. They drive other birds away from the
feeders and I have already mentioned the window business. Actually, I am fond of the Woodpeckers. They do not live in gangs and run around behaving rather
rudely. I would have to say, that for right now, the Woodpeckers are safe, unless they change their ways.
Ed Pirie West Topsham, Vermont |
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agedsage |
Grackles | #6 | ||
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Ed:
slw is correct. Grackles are Federally Protected under the Migratory Bird Treaty Act which was enacted in 1916 and to which there are seven signatory nations. It started out as a treaty between Canada, the US and Mexico to protect migratory waterfowl from commercial hunting. Down through the years it has been revised a couple of times and new members joined at each revision. The difference in the status between Grackles and Starlings is that the Grackle is a New World native and was here prior to the Pilgrims. On the other hand, Starlings, like the common House Sparrow, were BROUGHT here by our forefathers. They did NOT get here on their own. Therefore, they are considered to be non-native invasive species, and are unprotected. Collect their feathers, or "zap" one for it's feathers at your own peril. Personally, I wouldn't know the difference between the feather of a Grackle and a Sumatran Black chicken. Frank Schlicht PS: Come to Houston next winter and I will show you the "paint jobs" they do on our streets and the ground under their roost trees. They are year round residents here, but much more abundant in the winter. |
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spiaailtli |
#7 | |||
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I looked them up and found they migrate. I believe anything that migrates is "protected" and either much be hunted durring the open season, and
lacking that cannot be killed. That's how crows became protected and I'm betting you can thank PETA for that mess.
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spiaailtli |
#8 | |||
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You may have an out. I looked them up on the DNR site for my state and found this:
Other Wild Birds English sparrows, starlings and feral pigeons (except homing pigeons) may be killed at any time. Brown-headed cowbirds, common grackles, red-winged blackbirds, rusty blackbirds, Brewer's blackbirds and crows may be controlled when they are damaging trees or crops. All other non-game species of birds not otherwise covered in this regulation are protected by state or federal law and may not be killed. |
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slw |
grackles | #9 | ||
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If you'll dig a little deeper I think you'll find that a permit from your state's wildlife managment agency is required before controlling
protected species that become a problem.
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Ed Pirie |
#10 | |||
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I am afraid I am going to have to go rogue on this and not reveal any further intentions. Some of you gave me some wiggle room on this and it is much
appreciated. The legal beagles are not. If you happen to notice that I have some beautfully hackled spiders it is because a passing starling volunteered its
plumage or some other black bird of undetermined species was discovered as road kill, and who knows what I will fail to rescue from the netting covering my
blueberries this summer.
Best regards, Ed Pirie West Topsham, Vermont |
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tedgolden |
#11 | |||
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Sorry Ed, the road kill defense won't fly, so to speak.
Some zealot turned in a local antique dealer who had an antique taxidermied protected specie. Confiscation and an astronomical fine were the result. It just about put the guy (who didn't have a clue) out of business.. |
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Ed Pirie |
#12 | |||
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Ted, I do not intend to display these miscreant birds - only to borrow their plumage and get them out of my roof. I believe defense of home and hearth as well
as the crop damage (blueberries) will carry the day this time.
Ed Pirie West Topsham, Vermont |
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agedsage |
Grackles | #13 | ||
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I would like to take a stab at summarizing all of this and putting things into perspective. My credentials for this are that I spent 28 years of my life trying
to ensure that the CEO of the major utility company I worked for did not go to jail, or the company have major high dollar pieces of equipment confiscated to
be sold at public auction, because of the screw-up of a line crew over a "protected" bird.
First, as much as I dislike PETA, they had absolutely nothing to do with the international Migratory Bird Treaty Act. It was the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and it's counterparts in Mexico and Canada. (PETA wasn't even as much as a gleam in anyone's eye when the Treaty was initially signed--1916.) My best recollection is that the treaty was last revised in 1957, and was signed by four more Nations at that time, bringing the total to seven. At this time, it was agreed that the migratory bird species other than those hunted for sport needed to be included in the Treaty. To simplify what could have been a very time consuming and costly exercise to add birds species by species, it was decided by the parties to essentially include all birds, and to allow each Nation to exclude birds under their jurisdiction that they deemed pests. There are only three non-protected species in the US: starlings, house sparrows and pigeons; all of which have been brought to this continent by Europeans. Because some migratory species can be devastating to agricultural crops, and now fish farmers, the treaty allows for control of nuisance species. To exercise this "right", one has to get both a Federal and a State permit. In Texas, the State wildlife agency won't talk to you until you have the federal permit in your hot little hand, and getting the federal permit is like pulling hen's teeth!!! Under the terms of this Treaty, it is a violation to have, hold, buy, trade, sell, transport, disturb or possess any part or parts of any on the protected species, including nests, eggs and feathers. The ONLY exception to this is the possession of legally taken migratory game birds during a legal season and by legal means. It is this exception that allows for the taking and keeping and using of waterfowl feathers, most notably Woodduck. It is unlawful to pick up molted feathers, or those from a bird that died of natural causes. With all of that having been said, in my case interesting feathers of local birds lying on the ground are like Medjool Dates in the open box in my local supermarket, they need to have a "quality control test" performed on them periodically. With a little discretion, the testing can be done. Just don't hand the Produce Manager the pit to discard for you!!!! Need I say more? Frank Schlicht |
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Ed Pirie |
#14 | |||
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Frank, thanks for your expertise. Many animals are protected and I am in agreement with the overall idea of this. When any of these critters invade your home
with the intention of staying, I think the rules can sort of go out the window or be applied with some discretion. I am not talking about eliminating a species
or bringing body parts to the market, I am going to get some grackles out of my roof and I will do it quietly and promise not to disturb anyone in the process.
If they happen to get injured in the process, I am sorry, but they need to be relocated. It seems silly to elevate some grackles in my roof to a problem with
migratory bird treaties. I am all for those, but I am not in support of giviing these grackles the run of my home.
Ed Pirie West Topsham, Vermont |
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agedsage |
Grackles | #15 | ||
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Ed:
I am on your side. If I had such a nuisance, I would solve the problem and not look back. As I said before, "...just don't give the pits to the produce manager to dispose of." I suspect you may have starlings rather than grackles as grackles are typically birds that nest in open areas in trees and shrubs. On the other hand, starlings are notorious for getting into attics, bird houses, horizontal traffic light arms, etc. to nest. If they are in fact starlings, you are home free. If they are grackles, just be aware that the penalties could be harsh, and that the woods are full of zealots just dying to turn someone in. (I know of two real horror stories, one here in Houston some years ago, where such zealots played havoc.) Good Luck, and KEEP A LOW PROFILE!! Frank Schlicht PS: Don't show your feather collection to anyone!!!!! |
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robcane |
#16 | |||
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I saw one of these bumper stickers the other day and I'm going to find a place to order them:
People Eating Tasty Animals
I'm sympathetic to anyone who deals with pests in the attic... I fought a long guerrilla war against squirrels that kept chewing into my soffits and by the bitter end both parties of combatants were exhausted and disillusioned. Having said that, I also appreciate the need to uphold conservation measures like the migratory bird act and such. I'm familiar with some raptor rescue and rehab centers and it's disheartening to see how people fire away with birdshot or rifles at hawks and eagles. rjj We few We happy few We bamboo brothers |
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North country brookie |
#17 | |||
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Ahh yes,
Squirrils in the attic. Had one of those myself. Found the spot he was getting into and out from, closed the hole up.... only to have him go to the opposite side of my house, and chew new holes through the soffit and siding, and... I found a saucerful of antifreeze did the trick
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agedsage |
Grackles | #18 | ||
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Robcane:
I too have seen that bumper sticker and LOVE IT!!!!! Frank Schlicht |
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shakeylee |
#19 | |||
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whether it is legal or not is another story!
i bet it would make a great soft hackle. |
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North country brookie |
#20 | |||
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So if you tied a nymph using some of those feathers, would that make it a grackleback nymph ?
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