| Author | Comment | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|
waliwiz |
Glue lines appearance or problem? |
Lead | ||
|
Over the years I have heard different opinions in regards to noticable glue lines on bamboo rods. Is it more cosmetic, or is this a problem down the line.
|
||||
|
|
||||
findwolfhard |
#1 | |||
waliwiz wrote: Hi all , it is basically a cosmetic problem, if a red line isn`t crossed,- but it sure indicates inferior workmanship or just the "don`t give it a ...." attitude! If a rodmaker doesn`t care about gluelines, he just might not care about other essential steps in the making. Best Wolfhard |
||||
|
|
||||
jayhake |
#2 | |||
|
The exception to what Wolfhard stated above would be rods that were glued with resourcinol glue. Resourcinol dries to a purplish color and my understanding is
that those glue lines can be seen on rods that were cut and glued impeccably. I haven't glued with resourcinol personally to know for certain that this is
true, but I have seen very nicely made rods that exhibit the tell tale purple glue lines.
|
||||
|
|
||||
findwolfhard |
#3 | |||
jayhake wrote:Right so, of course I wasn`t refering to Resorcinol-glued blanks! Thanks for the comment. This glue can add a very interesting esthetic factor to a rod! The more even and fine and uninterrupted such a Resorcinol- line shows, the better. Also not to mention that a lot of makers stand to it as the best wood-glue possible, but that is another story! Regards Wolfhard
Last Edited By: findwolfhard 03/12/2009 19:01.
Edited 1 time.
|
||||
|
|
||||
softstick |
re: Glue lines | #4 | ||
|
Hhhmmm, I respectfully disagree about the "inferior workmanship" or "just don't give a .... attitude" comments. I've seen many rods from prominent rodmakers who charge in excess of $2K with glue lines. In addition I've seen other frailties as well. You have to remember, as wonderful and talented craftsman as they are, they are all still imperfect human beings. |
||||
|
|
||||
Blue Quill |
#5 | |||
|
The guy at the drive-through who forgets to put milk in my coffee is reflecting human imperfection. The prominent maker who charges $2000 for a rod with glue
lines and other obvious quality issues is operating on a completely different set of values, created and endorsed by his clientel.
A rod maker is usually known for his best work, not all his work This is true of all artists and craftsmen. Great makers, James Payne and Everett Garrison as past examples, continued to improve their rod quality and charge accordingly as their experience progressed, and many of todays rod makers follow in this tradition. However, many others increasingly set their prices more on their past reputation than on their current rod quality. Chuck
Last Edited By: Blue Quill 03/14/2009 18:25.
Edited 3 times.
|
||||
|
|
||||
tapermaker |
#6 | |||
|
theres a fine closeup in gnomes book that shows a open seam on a dickerson you could back a truck into. so sure over the course of a lifetime most craftmen
can do better than that most of the time but even the the best have bad days. another example at the rod fair last yr there was a 2000.00+ rod that had a
varnish drip off a guide thatlooked to not have been buffed on at all.
|
||||
|
|
||||
findwolfhard |
little errors | #7 | ||
|
Hi all,- I bought a brand new rod once from a well-known maker, - what can I say,- almost all rings were full of varnish, I guess that should serve as a kind
of "sealing", to show the buyer, it hadn`t been cast and fished!
Best Wolfhard |
||||
|
|
||||
bobbeegee |
#8 | |||
findwolfhard wrote: Did you keep the rod? Bob Go Heels!!! |
||||
|
|
||||
findwolfhard |
#9 | |||
|
I cleared the guides, and I also polished out the poor varnish by hand, because it had dusty particles all over. Took me about 2 days of tedious work. Looked
allright then. I sold it after a couple of weeks, not for that reason, but it didn`t fit my casting. The rod stayed in Europe. The new owner loved it.
Best regards Wolfhard |
||||
|
|
||||
Blue Quill |
#10 | |||
|
Raises an interesting question: Would the rod you sold be considered original, refinished, or an entirely new category of kit rod.
|
||||
|
|
||||
findwolfhard |
New or refinished | #11 | ||
|
Hi all, I sold the rod as used item, because I fished it,- and I also used the most elaborate polishing stuff for Urushi laquer and also for lapidary purposes.
It looked quite allright after treatment and, as I said, the owner was thrilled by it, if he had received the rod as it had been,- well, I think I saved the
maker`s reputation for him!
Best Wolfhard |
||||
|
|
||||
orange caddis |
#12 | |||
waliwiz wrote: glue lines are a joke, any rod maker that sells their rod with glues line does not have very high standards imo! |
||||
|
|
||||
thegubster |
#13 | |||
orange caddis wrote: ...maybe a cosmetic joke but with todays glues and such, even though they might appear garish and unacceptable to a craftman/discening public, I'd be willing to fish/buy one for as long as I have left! |
||||
|
|
||||
mvbrooks |
Glue Lines Aren't Important, Except When They Are Important | #14 | ||
|
Now, I pride myself on building blanks without glue lines (and have a series of complex steps I go through to avoid them that I will write about some day), but
glue lines can be due to any one of a number of causes and are usually of no import whasoever. Moreover, *most* builders get glue lines on blanks from time to
time and deal with them by literally filling them in with glue and sawdust (hint: I use Titebond II, thinned with water, and wood powder, the stuff sold as a
mix for use with System III Epoxy - works like a charm. Dr it overnight and file the plane flat and the gap fills like magic). There are several causes for
glue lines. They are almost impossible to avoid with URAC 185 activated with ammonium chloride (AC) or with the two part liquid Resourcinol glues. The URAC mix
is a good glue, but is so thin that anything other than absolutely perfect will show on an edge and I have yet to see a blank glued with that mix that I
can't find one imperfect spot. And I've looked at thousands of rods. With Resourcinol, a glue I happen to love, if the mix and temperature aren't
absolutely perfect, the *&$)! stuff will soak into the bamboo and show up as a dark line on the edge -- worse, as a wavey dark line because the bamboo is
of different densities in different places, so the bamboo absorbs the glue differently. If the glue is too thick, you don't even want to think about the
result
|
||||
|
|
||||
maruoff |
#15 | |||
|
I have had rods for 700 that were great with no glue lines (not so great cosmetics of course then but workmanship great) and had rods for nearly 3000 that had
sets and glue lines new straight out of the tube.
I am sure that some folks care more than others. and that even applies to some very high-dollar rods unfortunately which I honestly cant understand at all. a 2000$+ rod should be perfect in every respect. that this is often not the case I learned the hard way. and am still learning! |
||||
|
|
||||
Gnome |
#16 | |||
|
Going back to my ancestors point of view ; The only one allowed perfection is the great spirit. Man can aspire to that but he will never achieve it.
American Indian beadwork will always have a bead out of place in respect for the great spirit. I have a fair portion of Delaware Indian in my family tree. Great grandmother on Dads side was a full blooded Delaware. So all rods must be perfect? not going to happen. And if anyone has a perfect rod I would love to see it (because I do not believe it exist). All of mans endeavors will have a certain amount of error in them because we can not make perfect items due to the human condition. We all strive to reach the unattainable and do our best to make each rod to the best of our ability and that is all we as makers can ask of ourselves. Expecting perfection in anything other than what the great spirit/mother nature etc. give us is like expecting the world to be a perfect place and it is not. You should worry about how the rod performs first and foremost. If the tool gets the job done it can look good or bad doing it if the functionality is there. As a craftsman I strive for perfection but realise that as a human I will probably never make a perfect rod. But I will keep trying and I do my best to make each one better. Da Gnome |
||||
|
|
||||
PaducahMichael |
#17 | |||
|
With apologies to Max Erhmann:
"If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain or bitter, for always there will be greater and lesser rodmakers than yourself." As Gnome says, perfection is unattainable, though a worthy goal. Seek balance : a beautiful rod that is a pleasure to cast. Perhaps not perfect in any way, other than in the perfect thrill of lifting the tip and feeling a fish. And what's more "perfect" than that? |
||||
|
|
||||
bluejayee |
#18 | |||
|
Hi Guys, Without going into the 'tech' of it I'll say that I don't charge for glue lines. That is when a rod has 'em, they cost less. I
can't break a perfectly usable rod over my knee to 'save my reputation.' It becomes a 'cheap rod.' Jay Edwards
|
||||
|
|
||||
mvbrooks |
#19 | |||
|
I went back and looked at my post and found it a bit confusing. What I meant was, the best and most used glues have specific temperature and mixing conditions.
If those are not followed, a glue line might be the sign of a structural defect. More often, however, a glue line is just a cosmetic defect. The problem is,
glue lines in both cases can be easily covered up. So, the presence of a glue line or not, means very little (maybe nothing) about the reliability and
suitability of a fly rod as a fishing tool.
|
||||
|
|
||||
JPMarci |
Node spacing | #20 | ||
|
Perhaps we need to go fishing. I believe we are posting about similar stuff on another thread with a slightly different angle.
regards John |
||||
|
|
||||