Has anybody tried these egg flies? What's your opinion of their effectiveness? I was turned on to them by Craig Mathews(Blue Ribbon) since he said they
worked great in Alaska. Thanks
Dennis
Dennis
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Otter's Egg Flies?
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 firehole |
Otter's Egg Flies? |
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Posts: 3885 04/30/2009 12:51 Local user |
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dry side |
#1 | |||
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Posts: 47 04/30/2009 13:04 |
Dennis, do you have a description or photo of these ?? When Craig speaks it's wise to listen, so I would like to know more.
Richard |
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firehole |
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Posts: 3886 04/30/2009 14:00 Local user |
Richard,
Type in www.softmilkingegg.com These flies look like the reel thing and are soft(gummybear softness). I used them recently on the Madison below Hebgen and did well. I've picked the single eggs and the three egg cluster. Dennis |
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PkwyAngler |
#3 | |||
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Posts: 213 04/30/2009 14:31 |
Dennis,
Last fall/winter I had a chance to trial/field test some Otter Egg patterns for migrating Lake Ontario Brown Trout & Steelhead in the tributaries of New York State. I tied up some single egg patterns & egg cluster patterns using Otter's Trout sized eggs and white veiling material for milt. The translucent soft silicone /plastic rubbery like eggs look very realistic and have a nice density in the water column.
As egg patterns, the flies were relatively effective as I caught a number of the migrating browns on both patterns. Equally effective were the Glow Bug yarn single egg patterns I used tied in correct size & coloration of natural brown trout eggs. I am of the opinion that proper drift & presentation at fish eye level is the true key.
It can't hurt to have some of the Otter egg type flies in your box for the Madison's post spawn Rainbow trout.
Tight Lines, Pkwyangler… <"(((((><
Last Edited By: PkwyAngler 04/30/2009 14:34.
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dry side |
#4 | |||
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Posts: 48 05/01/2009 14:14 |
Thank you both, gentlemen. I don't often fish with egg flies, but I do like to actually catch fish.
Richard |
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The Otter |
#5 | |||
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Posts: 1 09/24/2009 11:31 |
Thanks for the discussion, guys. I usually do quite well between Hebgen and Quake, and also in the Park, during the first part of October. The browns and bows
really scarf up our egg products. I use a center pin reel, and float rod, and can fish the last big hole below Hebgen for about 50 years with this rig.
Normally, I use the smaller 4 mm eggs, in Tangerine, Apricot, and Apricot Opaque colors for the best results.
We just added a new color, "Salmon Egg" to our product line, and a new size, 8 mm, for you salmon and steelheaders to try. Check out our web site at softmilkingegg.com for more info. Tight Lines and All Releases, The Otter |
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pittendrigh |
#6 | |||
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Posts: 293 09/24/2009 12:56 |
firehole wrote:It's interesting how what you get away with depends so much on who you are. I've been working with soft flies for years (Marshmallow Nymphs, Fly Fisherman, 1992, Twinkie Streamers, Gummybear Nymphs, Bandjob Leeches) etc. I did manage to get the Marshmallow Nymph piece published, way back when. But not much else since, and that's 20 years ago now. I posted something about soft, worm-resin flies on another board this past summer, and got a string of complaints telling me, among other things, to "get a spinning rod." The culture is slowly changing though, I think. The main thing I've noticed about soft flies is that they so often do not get spit right after the first take. When fish bite down and don't let go, it does make them a lot easier to catch. I remember one day on DePuy's Spring Creek in Montana (a year after the last big flood in the late 90s) when the Pale Morning Dun hatch was so good, I had to ask Brandt Oswald: "when is it great fishing, and when is so easy it isn't fun anymore?" You might think the same sort of question arises with soft flies, that don't get spit. But I don't find it so. Soft flies do give you one more little edge to exploit. But trout fishing is seldom so easy it gets boring. Even with worm-resin flies. :-)
Last Edited By: pittendrigh 09/24/2009 14:27.
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JeffK.fiberglassflyro... |
#7 | |||
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Posts: 45 09/25/2009 09:15 |
Maybe we are coming full circle. When I was a kid in the 60's the old-timers would have no qualms about dead drifting salmon eggs or worms with fly tackle
if that was what worked that day. They grew up in an era when anything less than 1/2 oz was the realm of fly tackle and they developed great skills with
bait, lures, or even flies on fly tackle. In places where bait was outlawed (like the Finger Lakes tribs)a salmon egg substitute was a piece of foam cut into
a small ball and soaked in cod liver oil. IMHO, the fly fishing scene got a purist bent when spinning took over the world. Maybe we are just relearning what
our grandfathers knew?
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flyslinger |
#8 | |||
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Posts: 224 09/25/2009 09:40 |
Jeff K., if you haven't read it try the short story by Hemingway, " Big Two Hearted River". Complete with symbolism of using grasshoppers
blackened by soot from a forest fire as "bait" on his fly rod.
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tackleman |
#9 | |||
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Posts: 36 09/26/2009 00:00 |
I don't think it's 'elitist' to restrict what you fish with.
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Catch 22 |
#10 | |||
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Posts: 497 09/26/2009 07:33 |
tackleman wrote: At the risk of hijacking this thread, it's only elitist if you think it makes you superior to another to restrict what you fish with. If you do it just because you like that method better, then not elitist. IMHO. Jeff Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition! |
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rodzilla |
#11 | |||
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Posts: 139 09/26/2009 20:01 |
In the unenlightened State of Missouri where our Fish and Game laws are anything but elitist, these "flies" are considered soft plastic bait and are prohibited in waters designated "fly only."
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JeffK.fiberglassflyro... |
#12 | |||
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Posts: 50 09/28/2009 09:39 |
I can see molded eggs as being not a fly for fly fishing only areas, and each state province is unique. Where Atlantic salmon are around a pretty old-school
definition of fly is in place - single hook, no weight, no beads etc. Some of those flies where a hackle collar is placed ahead of a twister tail or flies
with spinners are a few others that usually aren't considered "flies" for fly fishing only water. However, there are plenty of places to fish
them. In addition, in the PA, NJ, NY area where I live in the majority of special regulations areas are artificials only - it is rare to find fly only water.
In the artificial only areas the big thing is that any plastic lures with scent is outlawed, which seems reasonable.
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Gnome |
#13 | |||
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Posts: 2274 09/30/2009 09:53 King of the Gnomes |
Same here in Colorado, Soft plastic baits are not acceptable in our Gold meadow waters(1.5" or less in length). And if caught fishing them you will be
ticketed.
Jeff P.S. just curious about how you all would like it if you where in your spawning bed and someone came along and broke the window and started throwing twinkies at you while you where spawning. I would not like it and will take the do unto others as you would have them do unto you tact. We need all of our natural spawned fish and in my book it is morally unethical to fish in the spawning beds. Even if you are targeting another species the disruption of wading and fishing in the beds hast to have a negative impact on the fish trying to spawn. ANd here in the Gunnison every rainbow spawned in the river is one step towards mitigating the effects of whirling disease which hammered the Bows and caused a 100% flip flop as far as the bow and brown populations. We watched the demographics go from 90% bows 10% browns with over 1600 fish per mile of over 16" to 90% browns and 10% rainbows and less than 1000 fish 16" or better(river morphology of the Gunnison is better suited for bows than browns) and this happened in a space of less than 3 years. We need to protect our wild fisheries and if not fishing over spawning fish is one way to do it so be it. If I am going to fish over spawning fish it will be Bluegills or Crappies or even Brookies due to their ability to overpopulate. Do the Trout and Salmon(King of all game fish) not deserve a little higher degree of respect? In some places like Alaska etc. they might be ok but dont we owe our finny friends at least the respect of allowing them some uninterrupted time during the spawn. Are we so greedy that our desire for self satisfaction overrides what is probably the right way? food for thought from da cave
Last Edited By: Gnome 09/30/2009 10:51.
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JeffK.fiberglassflyro... |
#14 | |||
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Posts: 54 09/30/2009 14:34 |
I always go back and forth over the spawning fish thing. The Lake Ontario and Finger Lakes trib fishing and Atlantic salmon fishing are based on spawning
runs. (oddly enough on many of these streams the parr production is limited by nursery water, not spawning beds). On a smaller scale, almost any lake that
carries over a few browns may have a few trophies head upstream in the fall, where local pros will interecpt them. In the Little Lehigh and Pequest R near me
fish stack up below the hatchery outflows in the fall and are suckers for egg patterns. It can be too easy at times, but I doubt it is affecting the
populations. In waters that need the spawners it appears to be a whole different matter. The upper end of the E Branch Delaware tailwater is closed 10/1 to
protect spawning browns and nobody complains. Thaddeus Norris didn't think it was ethical fishing past September to protect spawning fish. Those were the
days with no hatcheries and people were netting, spearing, and poisoning fish until they were all gone. Today we want to fish 12 months a year, but maybe we
should just watch the spawners from a safe distance part of the year. There are times I feel guilty about fishing all year - the fish should have some break.
But I still end up doing it.
One of the wildest spawning fish spots used to be the gravel bar just below the Fox R dam in Batavia IL. In the early spring the wallyes would spawn on the gravel bar at night and drop back to eddies below to rest during the day. Then during the day huge carp would come up on the bar to gorge on walleye eggs. Catching 20 lbs carp using steelhead tactics and egg flies was a blast. |
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flyslinger |
#15 | |||
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Posts: 231 09/30/2009 23:41 |
Gnome, I believe Gary Shandling used to do a joke about people "spawning" in the bed and some fish dangling a slice of pizza on a hook over them.
Thanks for reminding me of that funny skit. Anyway, I agree totally about the spawning bluegill and crappie. They need to be thinned or they will overrun a
pond. Knowing when to move on to the next spawning area is key. (no pun intended)
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bulldog1935 |
#16 | |||
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Posts: 7508 10/01/2009 11:45 Bulldog1935 |
it is a plastic bait, but it makes a great attractor with a midge dropper in just about any tailwater, whether fish are spawning, or not
the rods are never obsolete - the marketing is.
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mac7x |
#17 | |||
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Posts: 911 10/02/2009 14:21 |
I heartily agree with the "unenlightened state of Missouri". Fish them if you must, but not in fly only water. And don't call them flies.
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pittendrigh |
#18 | |||
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Posts: 294 10/05/2009 08:30 |
mac7x wrote: Ok, let's say the soft semi-clear plastic some egg not-flies are made with is verboten (for what ever reason). What about soft foam grasshoppers? Nylon-mesh Zonker bodies? Plastic tube flies with synthetic hair? Zelon wing material? How would you describe--in words--the apparently significant differences between these various plastic flies and not-flies? Is it because one not-fly imitates an egg, while another fly imitates a grasshopper? Or is it the material that matters. What if you used the soft egg plastic instead of foam to make a grasshopper abodmen? Would that be OK? If you want to be able to say "that's not a fly, that's not fly fishing" then I think you inescapably need a defensible definition--of not only what is, but also of what isn't. That looks like an impossible can of worms to me. But maybe it's not. I know this subject tends to evoke emotionally-charged responses. I want to hear the logical, carefully constructed responses. Really. I'm just curious to hear what they are.
Last Edited By: pittendrigh 10/05/2009 12:53.
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blacknosedace |
#19 | |||
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Posts: 91 10/05/2009 10:56 |
ok, pittendrigh, I'll take a shot at this. I fish flies built with only "traditional" materials (although I'm still trying to work through
the last batch of ants I tied with foam cylinders). And I don't build any weight into my flies anymore. I don't think that makes me any better than the
guy chucking bead heads or foam hoppers. Well, maybe a little, because it often does make me work harder to be a better fisherman. But that's why I fish
for trout. The guy throwing flies built with synthetics may be fishing for other reasons.
We shouldn't confuse the difference between materials and how those materials are used. The problem isn't in the materials themselves. Modern materials used in traditional ways are simply the means to tie a more effective fly and should be legal. On the other hand, Otter Egg flies are realistic facsimiles of fish eggs in a way that yarn egg flies are not, and so much closer to a lure -- or bait, if you will -- than a fly. I think I would go with bait. The same would apply for an intricately detailed and painted hopper or nymph. That's where I'd draw the line on synthetics. In fact, Pa. Fish Commission did just that years ago ( I haven't read the fine print in the regs recently.) on fly fishing only waters. No molded facsimiles. |
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pittendrigh |
#20 | |||
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Posts: 295 10/05/2009 12:58 |
RE> "We shouldn't confuse the difference between materials and how those materials are used. The problem isn't in the materials
themselves"
Ok, so I can use soft plastic as long as I don't use it to make egg flies......if I use it the right way, but not the wrong way. But It's still not clear what the right uses are, or the wrong uses. I've mentioned the following before, but I think it's worth repeating. Yellowstone Park has areas designated as "fly fishing only." So I asked at the Ranger Station at Mammoth Junction: "what is fly fishing?" The Ranger shook his head and grinned from ear to ear. "I can't tell you how long we struggled with that, in meeting after meeting. We finally decided fly fishing means 'not bait.'" |
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