Orvis rods: Chocolate vs. Caramel

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docbluedevil	Orvis rods: Chocolate vs. Caramel		Lead	[-]
Posts: 73 04/29/2009 15:54	Tags : None Well, I have my first Orvis bamboo rod coming to me in the near future: a 6'6" 4 wt 2/1 Flea, built from a Madison kit from the '70s. I think it'll be perfect for a Colorado high country cutthroat stream that I frequent in the late summer/early fall. I have a question. The blank is dark chocolate in color as opposed to the more common lighter caramel color. Curious what the story behind the darker tone is? Anyone know?
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fisherman911		#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 110 04/29/2009 17:42	I believe the color of the Orvis blanks was the result of the flaming process used. In general I think early rods were darker and over time and as cosmetics changed in the 70's and 80's the process was changed and the blanks became lighter in color.
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czkid		#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3941 04/29/2009 18:34 Moderator	The chocolate rods are more sought after...... Older Orvis rods are IMHO of better quality than the newer ones... but that's just me. Ralph
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fingernail	re	#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1583 04/29/2009 18:49	Hey Ralph, I definately agree, the really dark rods are awesome, I just got a rocky mountain really dark cane, I love the look of it, not that it casts any better than the standard just the cosmetics look better. I would love to find a 7' or 7'6" superfine thats dark. As everyone has said the flaming and possibly the bakelite treatment maybe the cause for the darker looking cane.
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eastprong		#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 447 04/29/2009 19:58	There are early impregnated rods from mid-1945 and before that can only be described as the color of a ripe chestnut, if you remember what one looks like. Deep mahogany, more reddish than the later "chocolate" ones. I have no idea how they achieved that color -- I suspect they were playing with the bakelite formulation. --Rich
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fisherman911		#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 111 04/29/2009 20:24	I do not know this as absolute fact but I have always understood that the impregnation process added no color to the rods, ie you could make a straw colored rod that was fully impregnated. It was the flaming process that created the deep colors in the early rods. That said I think the rods built in the 40's to the mid 50's are the nicest Orvis rods.
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Greg Reynolds		#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1947 04/30/2009 00:08 Orvis Database Founder	fisherman911 wrote: I do not know this as absolute fact but I have always understood that the impregnation process added no color to the rods, ie you could make a straw colored rod that was fully impregnated. It was the flaming process that created the deep colors in the early rods. That said I think the rods built in the 40's to the mid 50's are the nicest Orvis rods. Dark mahogany-colored Orvis blanks were the result of open flaming and the Bakelite impregnation. The catalog introduction of the Wes Jordan model mentions that the "rod sections are given a double impregnation, exclusive to this model, imparting a deeper, richer color and higher gloss to the finish." I think the principal source of the notion that Bakelite impregnation had no effect on color was Marty Keane. He stated on page 78 of Classic Rods and Rodmakers that the "rich brown finish" was a result of heat treatment alone and that unflamed Bakelite treated rods "are blond or yellow", which is clearly incorrect. I agree with Rich concerning the reddish blanks of some of the postwar rods--further process development appears to have been underway. There's nothing else like them. In the 1970s they stopped flaming the half-culms and--per a forum member who knew Wes Jordan and actually saw it--began heat treatment under electric coils, which is obliquely mentioned in a few of the period catalogs. I believe the lighter, uniform color of the mid-70s and later rods was a result of transitioning to oven-tempering and a new impregnation process.
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BlackHillsBill		#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2752 04/30/2009 10:22	Glad that Greg chipped in. I 've been curious too. I had a handsome dark Orvis Midge, which I bought in 1967, dearly loved (although you'll find considerable argument on this board about the efficiency of that particular taper), and so out of appreciation literally fished it to death. When I "replaced" it, it was with an Orvis Midge/Nymph, much lighter in hue but really not any different in action. So is one better than the other? Only in the sentiment evoked.
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docbluedevil		#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 74 04/30/2009 11:20	Great info, all. It's always enjoyable for me to learn a little about the background of a rod's creation. The seller told me the rod was "credited to Wes Jordan;" not sure what to make of that, as these kit rods don't come with any serial numbers or inscriptions. Did Jordan make blanks for kits, much less Madison grade kits? Hmm . . . what line and reel to mate it with? Should I start with a H&H DT4 and a Hardy Featherweight?
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BKill		#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 43 04/30/2009 15:05	I have it from Bill Cairns, the gentleman who began the Orvis fishing school, that for a time Orvis also experimented with dying cane. Perhaps this explains the color of the reddish-hued blanks? Mike D. http://battenkill.tripod.com
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Greg Reynolds		#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1948 04/30/2009 20:36 Orvis Database Founder	docbluedevil wrote: The seller told me the rod was "credited to Wes Jordan;" not sure what to make of that, as these kit rods don't come with any serial numbers or inscriptions. Did Jordan make blanks for kits, much less Madison grade kits? Without a serial number there's no way to know. It's a popular claim that's typically without merit. As shop manager, building rods for inventory wasn't Wes Jordan's job. Post war, Orvis appears to have employed a staff about 15 to do that. However, if you go to my database and scroll through serial numbers below 20,000, you'll see that he did make rods, and it's interesting to see what he did build--a little bit of everything, but saltwater trolling rods, bait casting rods, spinning rods, and of course developmental rods seemed to be his focus.
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Greg Reynolds		#11	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1949 04/30/2009 20:45 Orvis Database Founder	BKill wrote: I have it from Bill Cairns, the gentleman who began the Orvis fishing school, that for a time Orvis also experimented with dying cane. Perhaps this explains the color of the reddish-hued blanks? Mike D. http//battenkill.tripod.com Hi Mike, It seems possible. I had forgotten about it, but there's a B&W photo on page 77 of Keane's book of a "rose-toned licorice impregnated" rod. Still working for the big O? Regards, Greg
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hopkintoncane	Color Vs. Taper	#12	[url]	[-]
Posts: 404 05/01/2009 07:33	Greg et al can correct me on this, but I would suspect that slight changes in taper have significantly more influence on the action of an Orvis than impregnation ever would. I have seen this discussed here several times, and the suggestion has been made that the older, darker cane casts better. I took my "modern" 89XXX blond cane/black glue lines 3/2 Seven Four fishing again last weekend in Maine, and for small streams, its my new favorite 7 foot and under Orvis rod. Todd
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steeldog94	Sharpe	#13	[url]	[-]
Posts: 143 05/01/2009 08:00	Sharpe licensed/uses the Orvis impregnation process and their rods are straw colored not caramel or chocolate. I think there is something else Orvis does (other than the impregnation process) to affect the color of their rods. Last Edited By: steeldog94 05/01/2009 09:29. Edited 1 time.
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Orvis rods: Chocolate vs. Caramel

Orvis rods: Chocolate vs. Caramel

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