Color preserver on silk

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Richard Essegian	Color preserver on silk		Lead	[-]
Posts: 11 05/01/2009 19:36	Tags : None Hey all. Looking for some advice for a 359 restore. Ive only restored 1 rod prior and this will be my second. I am brushing on the finish which is the Helsman Spar Urethane. Ive got two coats on now and plan to wrap the guides on next. I want a jasper orange and black thread which is what I found at the tip section and the butt section. What would be the proper procedure for using the Als color rite. or should I use a shellac or lacquer for a CP. Any help on maintaining the color of the wrappings would be appreciated. Richard
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Blue Quill		#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 151 05/01/2009 20:41	Hi Richard, Use shellac or lacquer, and try it on some test wraps first. If you're not a maker, sand the paint off a wood pencil, varnish it, and there's your test blank (I came up with this some years back for a non-maker friend of mine). Make few wraps and test the shellac and varnish to see which one works best. Don't use the newer color-preservatives for restorations; they look "too perfect" and detract from the vintage effect. Vintage rods, even Paynes and Leonards, usualy have some bleed-through and color-preserver issues and it is a subtle part of their cache. Same goes for restorations with thread that is too fine. Chuck
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bluejayee		#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 743 05/01/2009 21:39	Hi guys, I personally like shellac on the orange/black. It comes out a bit brown and so not so.... Try a test strip as you never know 'til you try it. Always do a test strip and mark it and save it so you don't 'always do a test strip.' Jay Edwards
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Richard Essegian		#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 12 05/01/2009 22:11	I actually have some old bamboo rods that never made it to the restoration table that I will use for testing. Is the shellac a normal product I can get at a hardware store? Or is it one that is specially made for bamboo rods? Is there a brand that is better than others. Also are the wraps going to adhere since I have already put a few coats of Helmsman on? One more question. I can finish using the Helsman for the final coats over the rod after being wrapped with the shellac correct. Thanks again, Richard Last Edited By: Richard Essegian 05/01/2009 22:14. Edited 1 time.
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Blue Quill		#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 154 05/01/2009 22:29	Hi Richard, Use orange ("orange flake") shellac. Bullseye is a good brand. You can get it in a small can in most hardware or home stores. The wraps will stay in place, and yes you can use Helsman over the shellac color seal. Don't fill the threads until flat; most vintage rods have some "tooth", and this will be enough to provide purchase/grip for the Helsman. Chuck Last Edited By: Blue Quill 05/01/2009 22:32. Edited 1 time.
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Ben Kann		#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 197 05/02/2009 01:00	Hi Richard Bullseye is a good brand, but check the date (bottom of the can). With Shellac you need FRESH stock. Or you can buy a small quantity of shellac flakes and make up a small batch whenever you need one. Either way you want the Shellac thinner than it comes ready mixed (the standard in the can is "three pound cut"). Get some denatured alcohol and mix it 2 parts alcohol to 1 part shellac for a one pound cut. Or mix one to one for a two pound cut. If you're matching and older wrap finish (on the rest of the rod) go two coats one lb cut and two coats of two pound cut. If you're redoing the whole rod (or don't have a matching problem) use five coats of one pound cut. Ben
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flyflkr	CP	#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 25 05/02/2009 01:07	Just wanted to add an experience I had not long ago using shellac for color preserver. After the rod was fished the first time varnish was peeling from the top winds on the tip section. I really think the problem was the shellac was not dewaxed. I used Man O War spar varnish over it. I had another rod I'd finished the same way and I was able to peel the varnish right off the ferrule wraps. Two rods I had to strip and do over again. Wondering if anyone else has had a problem like that.
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Richard Essegian		#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 13 05/02/2009 11:49	so based on the last reply is this something that I have to worry about with the Bullseye brand? Or will it say de waxed on the can. Ive also read about Varathane Diamond spar-urethane as a color preserver. Or maybe a head cement that is used for fly tying.
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bluejayee		#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 746 05/02/2009 12:48	Hi Guys, I put shellac, CP, spar, etc. on with a dubbing needle. I let it sit long enough to 'soak' so the wraps are 'glued.' I then wipe it off with my finger. This does several things; lays down the 'fuzzies' that didn't singe off, 'sets' the color you're looking for, and gives you a coat thickness that will actually dry rather than goo. Anyway , that,s what I do. Jay Edwards
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gypsy.fiberglassflyro...		#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1 05/02/2009 23:28	Minwax polycrylic is an outstanding color preserver that is readily available at your local hardware store for cheap. Thread color stays very close to spool color after treatment and it can be applied every 4 hours for a total of 3-4 coats for satisfactory coverage. Below are photos of Granger green thread done on a dark fiberglass blank (any one who has attempted to color preserve light thread on a dark blank can appreciate how difficult this is) ;a true testament to how well the polycrylic works. Lime green test wraps done with polycrylic YLI antique gold test wrap and YLI rust red Gypsy Rod Works
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Ben Kann		#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 198 05/02/2009 23:37	bluejayee wrote: Hi Guys, I put shellac, CP, spar, etc. on with a dubbing needle. I let it sit long enough to 'soak' so the wraps are 'glued.' I then wipe it off with my finger. This does several things; lays down the 'fuzzies' that didn't singe off, 'sets' the color you're looking for, and gives you a coat thickness that will actually dry rather than goo. Anyway , that,s what I do. Jay Edwards This is why I said the shellac must be FRESH. If it's a little (or a lot) too old, it doesn't dry/cure properly and that's what you get. The best solution is to make up your own (it's just shellac flakes and denatured alcohol) in small batches as you need it and discard the overage when you've finished, BTW, that Minwax Polycrylic looks lika a terrific solution for new work. The shellac (which does tint your thread color slightly yellow/brownish) is at its best for matching existing older wraps (like refinishing part of a Granger, Phillipson or other older rods).
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kellymm		#11	[url]	[-]
Posts: 10 05/03/2009 18:37	I like als cp and wrap rite my cameras a piece of crap but it did retain the color
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bluejayee		#12	[url]	[-]
Posts: 749 05/04/2009 00:57	Hi Guys, The Minwax looks good, eh? Jay Edwards
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Richard Essegian		#13	[url]	[-]
Posts: 14 05/04/2009 18:24	Hey all, I tried the polycrylic and it worked on blue (Gudebrod), cardinal gossamer, and antique gold gossamer. It worked on the blue and the cardinal threads but for some reason the varnish bled through the antique gold. I dont think that I got a good enough seal on the antique gold, obviously. Thanks for the replies, Richard.
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eastprong		#14	[url]	[-]
Posts: 448 05/05/2009 03:45	Richard: With any water-based sealer/varnish, you need multiple coats in order to avoid bleed-through. Try 3 coats of the Polycrylic, wait at least 24 hours after the 3rd coat before switching to oil-base.
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JeffK.fiberglassflyro...		#15	[url]	[-]
Posts: 16 05/05/2009 10:44	The other thing about the water based acrylics is that the first coat or two should be thinned about 50% with water to assure that the sealer penetrates the wraps fully. After I coat the first time with thinned CP I wipe off the excess to make sure the stuff dries right all the way to the blank.
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