Can anyone explain to an ignorant person the difference between hand welted ferrules, rolled welt, etc?
Which are generally considered the best?
Bob
Which are generally considered the best?
Bob
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Ferrule welts
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 bobbeegee |
Ferrule welts |
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Posts: 2786 06/12/2009 09:01 |
Go Heels!!! |
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bluejayee |
#1 | |||
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Posts: 776 06/12/2009 12:42 |
Hi Guys, Rolled welts are the tube itself being rolled over and formed. Hand welts are a separate piece of tubing or bar stock that is soldered on. The
soldered welts are considered to be and are much better. Jay Edwards
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bobbeegee |
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Posts: 2787 06/12/2009 13:01 |
Thanks Jay.
Learn a little something new every day! Bob Go Heels!!! |
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OldCanerods |
#3 | |||
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Posts: 47 06/12/2009 14:42 |
And a ferrule with no welt at all is the bottom of the heap.
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jz2 |
#4 | |||
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Posts: 249 06/12/2009 16:47 |
does/did any maker machine the welts into the ferrule. I'm think winston/howells and their duronze ferrules, or Louis F's super Z design
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bluejayee |
#5 | |||
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Posts: 777 06/12/2009 19:04 |
Hi Guys, Well, yes the barstock ferrules are machined entirely including the welt. However the Super 'Z's" were a three piece design. Oops, I
better go look....... Yes, they are a soldered welt type. The brass 'Super Z's' were a little different as the welt was soldered but the
'sleeve' on the female was not. Also, they don't have a moisture cap in the female. Jay Edwards
Last Edited By: bluejayee 06/12/2009 19:06.
Edited 1 time.
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OldCanerods |
#6 | |||
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Posts: 50 06/12/2009 19:11 |
I think most of the modern ferrule makers are machining one piece ferrules - welt and all. The term hand-welted in this case is more meant to mean that the
ferrule has a large intergrated welt vs. rolled welt or no welting. Ditto with waterproofing plugs in the females, some are soldered in place and others are
machined as part of the overall machining process. The ferrule starts out as rod stock and it completed via machining away all that doesn't belong there.
Unless a rodmaker makes his own ferrules then you'll find that the purchased ferrules are made on CNC machines. Modern CNC machines can turn out finished
product that requires little or no human hand work.
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bobbeegee |
I'll bet | #7 | ||
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Posts: 2788 06/12/2009 19:29 |
One of these days ole CNC is gonna program a machine that will make any dadgum rod you want!
Man, I'm dying for a Payne 102. Ohtay Bob, shoot we'll just throw every component and the bamboo into this hopper right here, punch in Payne 102, and voila, there you guy ole flyslinger. An exact replica...........uhh, we're still trying to hit on that Payne finish. You know, I'll bet that frigging machine would give me the finger as I exited. Bob 
Go Heels!!! |
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Lewis B |
#8 | |||
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Posts: 33 06/12/2009 21:19 |
I have a question about ferrules welts. I know cheap ferrules have no welts but do the "reinforced" cheapies have welts. If not, what does
"reinforced" refer to? Im not trying to take over the thread ,just thought that since we were on the subject I could get some help with this one.
Lewis
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bluejayee |
#9 | |||
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Posts: 778 06/13/2009 00:21 |
Hi Guys, I believe there is an advantage to ferrules assembled from drawn tubing. CNC does some cool stuff but........ Jay Edwards
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AJ Bamboo |
#10 | |||
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Posts: 826 06/13/2009 00:29 |
ferrules that are soldered up from hard drawn tubing (as were payne and leonard ferrules) are available from CSE, Bellinger (custom manufactured by CSE) and my
ferrules. probably a few others as well but i do not know of them.
drawn ferrules like grangers would be good but the art of deep drawing is virtually lost. i have talked with someone who is going to give it a try though and i hope for success. these would be great for tapers that drop 1/64 over the ferrules. bar stock ferrules tend to be a bit less expensive as the start up material cost is less due to not having to draw all the different sizes of tubing and making soldered tubing ferrules requires the time of someone skilled in making ferrules. i have listed them in the order I PREFER ferrules made by the different methods of manufacture. others preference and mileage may vary |
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drbaits |
#11 | |||
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Posts: 122 06/13/2009 08:45 |
What about the ferrules with serrated ends, presumbly to disperse stress on the rod at the ferrule junction. It seems like a good idea, but the concept
didn't take over the industry....has anyone done comparative studies with standard ferrules? I hope this isn't too much of a deviation from the welt
issue!
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bluejayee |
#12 | |||
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Posts: 779 06/13/2009 12:15 |
Hi Guys, Serrations, thinning, pointing the tabs etc. all reduce the localized stress at the edge. Often overlooked is annealing. Granger/WM and Orvis used
that with success. Jay Edwards
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OldCanerods |
#13 | |||
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Posts: 51 06/13/2009 13:52 |
Lewis B wrote: Reinforced ferrules are a different beast. The middle (1/2) way down) the female ferrule has an extra thick area to prevent the ferrule from splitting under heavy loading. So I guess a reinforced ferule could have no welt, rolled welt or hand welt, but I believe that all that I've seen (few) have hand welting. They would be used on salt-water rods and other very heavy loading fishing rod. Most likely the male would also have extra heavy walled section too. Rolled welt ferrules or hand welt ferrules can also have serrated opening (bamboo end) to help spread the stress and also allow the wrap to wind over the end of the ferrule vs. butting against the end of the ferrule. Some Chubb/Montague ferrules even had hex-shaped openings so that little or no bamboo had to be removed from the ferrule station. Over the years just about anything that could be invented has been invented or tried to hold rods together. Sliding tubes and overwrapping jointing sections and bamboo ferrules. Plus brass, nickel or chrome plated brass monel and nickel-silver (AKA german silver or freedom silver) matterial has been used. Also stepdown ferrules like used by Montague/H-I that are the bane of restorations because Montague crammed the ferrules on without regard to fit, so many cracked. The ferrule also acts as part of the taper and so these rods aren't the best examples of taper design. Then ferrules can be pinned to hold in place or have the end crimped (Granger/Phillipson)
Last Edited By: OldCanerods 06/13/2009 14:14.
Edited 2 times.
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