w/f vs dt

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mer		#21	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3076 06/10/2009 05:51	I'd bet that it took a bit of education before you realized you could tell the difference, I know it did me. Lots of trying different lines on a single rod, then trying to figure out "why". Out of curiosity, what types of tapers do you prefer fishing? I'm more of a "full flexing" (Payne type) than a "tip flex/upper quarter flex", even in a "Tupperware" rod. One of my all time favorite graphite rods was a Winston IM6; I had a Loomis GL3 for a bit. An 8foot 5wt that never felt natural to me until I put a 7wt line on it. Reason for asking is that I think that is part of learning to feel the difference, I think a full flex rod is more sensitive to the line than a tip flex. Just my opinions, as stated previously if one disagrees or thinks I'm FOS, then just ignore anything I have to say. This signature left intentionally blank.
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tiptop		#22	[url]	[-]
Posts: 575 06/10/2009 07:37	I've found that in a given line wt. the first 30 ft. of many lines (rgardless of DT or WF) cast similarly but certain ones fall to one side or the other of the bell curve, so to speak. For example, to me, the Cortland classic peach has a front taper that is so front weighted and "heavy" it casts like a heavier line. Others are abnormally light due to taper and in some cases due to the actual wt. being off a bit. But most fall somewhere in the middle. Out past 30', anyone should be able to feel the difference between WF and DT regardless of brand or model and the further the cast, the more difference there is. Those that fish graphite may not notice the differences as much because IMO (and just IMO) graphite seems to have a broader "dynamic range" -- that is, it's capable of casting a broader range of line wts. than bamboo before being over loaded. Although with current graphite trends, many graphite rods don't load properly at the rated line wt. and it's necessary (for me) to fish them a line wt. or two higher.
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mac7x	Who says you can't reverse a WF?	#23	[url]	[-]
Posts: 863 06/10/2009 09:50	Some years ago, I was fishing a reservoir with my brother. He was using a graphite 8 weight with a salmon Bomber, and I had borrowed a graphite two-hander to see if I might want to get one for salmon fishing. It didn't take long to disabuse myself of that notion, so I tried my brother's rod. I couldn't cast it at all, so I asked what he had for a line. "A weight forward 8". I said that there was no way this was an 8. "Yes it is". So I stripped enough of it off to determine that it was indeed an 8, and it was on backwards. The amazing thing was that he could actually cast that big Bomber reasonably well with just the running line.
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mer		#24	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3077 06/10/2009 10:14	Casting style? Do you tend to let the rod do the work, minimal hauling? Does he have an aggressive style, heavy double hauling? Loading the rod is loading the rod, whether it's via double hauling or pure line weight. This signature left intentionally blank.
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mac7x		#25	[url]	[-]
Posts: 864 06/10/2009 10:33	I haul more than he did (if he's fishing now it's the Styx). I think the difference was that I knew something was wrong - he just cast it.
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jbenenson	30 ft	#26	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1 06/11/2009 15:42	Manufacturers create tapers for different casting and fishing situations, which is why there are 17,274,351 different fly lines. The best way to choose a line IMHO is to look at the tapers published online and decide what type you want. For example, a steep taper will turn over wind-resistant flies but ain't delicate, whereas a gentle taper will result in a delicate presentation but you can get a very sore shoulder trying to punch a big fly into the wind. A weight forward will carry a casting section for only a medium distance; a double taper (most anyway) will continue the full line weight for much, much longer. (You can aerialize more line with a DT!) Decide how you want to use the line, look for ones that meet your criteria, then try them at your local fly shop. For classic rods I always use a double taper.
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tiptop		#27	[url]	[-]
Posts: 577 06/11/2009 17:35	jbenenson wrote: Manufacturers create tapers for different casting and fishing situations, which is why there are 17,274,351 different fly lines. The best way to choose a line IMHO is to look at the tapers published online and decide what type you want. For example, a steep taper will turn over wind-resistant flies but ain't delicate, whereas a gentle taper will result in a delicate presentation but you can get a very sore shoulder trying to punch a big fly into the wind. A weight forward will carry a casting section for only a medium distance; a double taper (most anyway) will continue the full line weight for much, much longer. (You can aerialize more line with a DT!) Decide how you want to use the line, look for ones that meet your criteria, then try them at your local fly shop. For classic rods I always use a double taper. IMO, with most bamboo, you can aerialize more line with a WF. Unless you have a cannon of a rod, all the extra weight of the center portion of the DT line will cause the rod to overload at a shorter distance than with a WF.
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Cane Head		#28	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2230 06/14/2009 19:26	When I bought my first graphite - not too long after they hit the market, besides the warning label about powerlines, lightning, and the such, it was marked as a 5/6wt. The pamphlet that came with rod broke that down into using either a 5DT or 6WF. My second graphite rod was also marked dually the same way and the manufacturer also described the dual rating in the same way. Thus, that is how I always understood the dual rating. Perhaps with improved quality control and manufacturing process in both the flyline and fly rod business, line rating has been refined to a solitary weight. About 9 years ago, this discussion of DT vs WF was a hot topic at the old "Flyshop.com" website and it was a rather lengthy and often heated thread. It prompted me to call Sage, Orvis, St Croix, T & T, and Winston and poll the R&D sections on what taper design did they design their rods around. All related that they designed their fly rods for use with a WF line and rated their rods for a specific WF line weight. All stated the reason being was that the WF design was hands down the most sold fly line design. St Croix did fess up and stated they designed a 8' 4wt rod specifically for nymphing and they designed it with the 4DT line in mind. Reason being is that most nymphers fish close at hand and not at a lengthy distance. Therefore the rod was designed to load in close casting distances and not at "miler" distances that everyone else is trying to achieve. And there in, I think, lies the clue to line taper selection? -What distance are you going to be fishing the most. Personally, while I have a DT line in every weight class of rod I own, I find I'm using a WF design of some type whether it be a long belly WF or the typical standard WF offering of Cortland, SA, or Orvis. The latter has had flylines made by all three line companies. I get what I perceive to be a crisper cast with a WF than with using a DT - especially past that 30' mark, but then again , also up close on a small stream. When I get a new cane, I'll line it with several DT weights during trial casting just to see how it works with the rod. But since I tend to favor medium to medium fast rods, I seem to get the best performance (for me) from a WF taper of some type. Cane Last Edited By: Cane Head 06/14/2009 19:30. Edited 1 time.
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mvinsel		#29	[url]	[-]
Posts: 335 06/15/2009 13:59	A DT6 and WF6 will feel different even with 30 feet of line outside the tip because the 7 feet of line inside the tip is about twice the weight with the DT as the WF. If the thin running line on a WF is about a two weight then it's about 80 grains for 30 feet, or 19 for the seven feet inside the guides. The DT6 at its full thickness of 5.3 grains per foot is 37 grains inside the guides. Add that difference of 18 grains along the length of a rod and I think you would feel it loading the rod as you swing it. I like the way Walton Powell labeled his rods 7-8-9-10. For me the deciding difference on which I'll use for a given location is whether I need to roll cast or mend line further out than 30, which the fat line middle of a DT can do but the thin running line of a WF cannot. -Vinnie in Juneau
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mattcliff	Casting ain't the whole story	#30	[url]	[-]
Posts: 119 06/15/2009 14:10	You can't select your favorite DT or WF line by going down to the fly shop and lawn casting a bunch of them. You have to fish them. One of the main differences between DT and WF is that the former tend to mend line more easily, particularly when you have a lot of line on the water. This is the main reason I fish them most (though not all) of the time.
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Zenkoanhead		#31	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1438 06/15/2009 17:53	I am more or less with MER on this one, but I find that I can't make any firm predictions about the line a given rod will prefer regardless of the specs. Generally, short, I like a DT and a WF for maximum distance, but there are simply too many exceptions to even this rule. A line I like a lot is the Ridgeline Presentation. A very long front taper and slick through the guides. But even with that specific line some rods prefer a DT and some the WF. I just keep trying different lines until it clicks. Don
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