I've looked through some online taper repositories (including David Ray's), looking for real 4wt. tapers that are 7 1/2' or longer and I find a lot
of tapers that are labeled as 4wts., but when you look at the measuremenf for the ferrule and the diameter of the butt section it becomes clear that a lot are
actually 4/5 wts. Is this because most of the good real 4wt. tapers probably came about in more modern times and are proprietary, unpublished tapers? I know
4wts. weren't all that popular or used in the old days, that's why I'm guessing there aren't that many longer, true 4wt tapers. The few 4wt.
taper that I've used have been adaptations, where I used Hexrod to drop a 5wt. by one line weight.
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Real 4wt. tapers?
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 Canewrap |
Real 4wt. tapers? |
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Posts: 95 05/20/2009 10:54 |
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canerodscom |
#1 | |||
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Posts: 2133 05/20/2009 23:28 Bamboo preacher |
Canewrap,
Looking at the ferrule and the diameter of the butt section gives you some hints, but as you know does not tell the whole story. Have a look at the Perfectionist which belongs to Sante, often called Martha's Perfectionist. The biggest diameter of the butt section is .271" which is right in line with what you would expect for a four weight. Even at 7' 6" though, this true four weight rod uses a 14/13 stepped ferrule which isn't what you would expect. But plenty of folks have cast it, and almost universally acclaim this as one of the nicest four weight rods ever made. It's what happens between the butt and the ferrule, and the ferrule and the tip, that makes it so nice. Harry |
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Canewrap |
Will the real 4wts. please stand up | #2 | ||
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Posts: 97 05/21/2009 10:52 |
I agree with everything you've said Harry, but then how do you tell if what you're setting out to make is really a 4wt. and not just a 4/5wt. that
fishes better with a WF5 line? I have too many 5wts. already. Is the taper for Sante's rod posted anywhere?
Last Edited By: Canewrap 05/21/2009 10:57.
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ShenRods |
#3 | |||
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Posts: 210 05/21/2009 18:26 |
Take a look at one of the great tapers - a Divine Fairy Rod - it is a true 4wt. It is easily converted to a 2 piece which I have done and built. I even made one for Michael. I have hollowed it just to give it a bit more responsiveness. I have made it both as solid and hollowed - I use the pair to demonstrate the effect of hollowing. Now if you want to compare that to other potential contenders - look at the stress curves with 30' of line cast - If they have lower stresses then the Divine - then you know you are dealing with a 4/5wt. If they are in the same range then you may have another true 4wt. Chris |
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Canewrap |
Re: Real 4wt. tapers? | #4 | ||
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Posts: 98 05/21/2009 20:35 |
Wow Chris, thanks for the baseline. Now, I can go back and get a better idea of the number of true 4wts. available in published tapers.
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bobnorwood |
Stress Curves | #5 | ||
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Posts: 1 06/05/2009 11:35 |
Deciding the line size for a particulaer rod taper can be very difficult. Most folks use the Stress Curve to evaluate the taper. However Stress is directly
dependent upon the specifications used in determining what that stress is. For example, saying that we look at the Rod Stress Curve at 50 feet of line does not
tell the whole story. You also need to know the STANDARD line weight used by the program because they can vary considerably directly affecting the resulting
data. It's best to use one Program and one line length for obtaining you data, this will at least make the Stress values from Rod to Rod consistent.
I have written a short paper ot This subject and am wondering how I can post it. If some one would let me know I would appreciate it. Also would like to know how to spell check my work. Bob |
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Canewrap |
Re: Paper on taper determination/design | #6 | ||
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Posts: 105 06/05/2009 16:41 |
I'm a technical editor Bob. If you want it checked I can help you out (wlwalter77 at hotmail dot com). If you have a photobucket subscription you can pdf
it and post it there, then post a link here on the board.
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bobnorwood |
RE: 4WT TAPERS | #7 | ||
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Posts: 2 06/16/2009 16:29 |
HAVE THE PAPER DONE IT'S IN WORD 4 PAGES W/GRAPHS
hOW DO I POST IT? BOBN |
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Gosland |
#8 | |||
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Posts: 40 06/16/2009 23:43 |
Bob, I wish I could help but I don't know how to help on this one... However, I am really anticipating reading what you have written!!! Your discussions
on tapers is always extremely insightful...
Anyone have a suggestion as to how Bob can post the paper he has authored and wishes to share with us? |
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quashnet |
#9 | |||
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Posts: 2617 06/17/2009 02:25 Moderatus Muscae |
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jayhake |
#10 | |||
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Posts: 230 06/17/2009 09:49 |
I am working on getting it posted this morning. Hang in there for a bit and I should have it available through this thread.
Cheers, Jay EDIT: Here it is, just copy and paste the link below into a new browser window: http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1359570/STRESS%20CURVES%20102.pdf
Last Edited By: jayhake 06/17/2009 10:19.
Edited 2 times.
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David Dornblaser |
#11 | |||
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Posts: 308 06/17/2009 22:04 |
If it helps, I make those posts/attachments/links for folks on my website all of the time. If you are still having trouble posting it, I will be glad to do
that for you.
- David dornblaser@uppermidwestflyfishing.com www.UpperMidwestFlyFishing.com - fly fishing in the Upper Midwest. Spring Creeks to Smallies to Steelhead. |
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Jim Lowe |
#12 | |||
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Posts: 550 06/22/2009 02:40 |
Chris,
Bob, You need to host your PDF on the internet. Yuku might have a facility to do this. If not, send it to me and I'll host it on my website when I get home from India next week. Jim.
Last Edited By: Jim Lowe 06/22/2009 21:56.
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jayhake |
#13 | |||
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Posts: 235 06/22/2009 09:23 |
Gents,
Maybe it didn't show up clearly in my previous post, but Bob's paper is posted and available for your viewing. Please just copy and paste the following URL into a browser window. http://files.getdropbox.com/u/1359570/STRESS%20CURVES%20102.pdf Cheers, Jay |
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Jim Lowe |
#14 | |||
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Posts: 551 06/22/2009 21:54 |
Thanks Jay, no it wasn't clear to me that is what you had done.
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bobnorwood |
#15 | |||
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Posts: 3 06/23/2009 16:26 |
Jay;
I finally got the file to open, thanks very much for your good work Bob Norwood |
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jayhake |
#16 | |||
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Posts: 236 06/23/2009 17:43 |
Happy to help Bob,
Sorry guys, I should have added a new post showing where the paper was, rather than editing the old one. Cheers, Jay |
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ShenRods |
#17 | |||
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Posts: 218 06/24/2009 16:56 |
Jim I looked at the two versions of the Divine Fairy Rod in RodDNA - they are close to the Payne 97 as you commented - except - the Divine is a 3 piece rod and the Payne is 2 piece. Biggest difference is the Fairy rod has a bit stronger butt section compared to the Payne. I used another taper for the Divine Fairy rods - the ones mentioned above are close but after measuring a couple of stripped rods at 1" intervals, we believe we have a more representative taper. One issue with those posted tapers is the real Fairy Rod tips are under .060" - more like .056" - but will all those intermediates I can see why people would have problems getting an accurate taper. Chris |
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Jim Lowe |
#18 | |||
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Posts: 552 06/25/2009 08:24 |
Chris,
Thanks. The Devine is surely a stronger rod beyond 30 feet. I forgot you were making and someone was selling new rods under the Divine name. Had I remembered I wouldn't have asked about the taper. Thanks for clarifying though that you weren't referring to one of the two tapers I was looking at. Next time I fish the SNP I'll be sure to stop by and cast one of those new rods. By the way, that's an SNP trout in my avitar. Thanks again. Jim.
Last Edited By: Jim Lowe 06/25/2009 08:42.
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ShenRods |
#19 | |||
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Posts: 219 06/25/2009 18:55 |
Jim
Actually, the Divine is a bit long for the SNP - 7' is as long as I recommend or use - closer to 6' is even better. The SNP is fishing great right now - fantastic water levels for this time of year - we had lots of rain during May / June. I have a new 2 piece version of the Divine Fairy Rod - made the prototypes both solid and hollow built. The hollow version is my favorite. Even made one for Michael - he loves it. Also have the new Standard Trout - just a smooth casting rod for classic trout waters. Just a pleasure to fish with style. Chris |
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