Edwards debate revisited

0 Kudo

Author	Comment
rckdr	Edwards debate revisited		Lead	[-]
Posts: 63 06/29/2009 12:41	Tags : None I would like to add some new information to the discussion started in my previous topic entitled "need help with an Edwards rod" currently on page 3 of this forum. This discussion centered around a model 124A Deluxe Autograph rod that I aquired. In the discussion one highly knowledgable poster stated that all of the Autograph rods were made after Eustis' death, and I have no reason not to believe this other than I still do not understand why the term "autograph" was used when the autographer was dead. He also stated, however, that "all of the numbered rods were post Mount Carmel. Period." and that the only known Edwards catalog is a 1933 Bristol Catalog which is a copy of the 1930 catalog. I have recently come across two original Edwards catalogs. Both are marked "E.W. Edwards and Sons, Mount Carmel, Conn." One catalog has "1929" written on it. I suspect that the other is a few years older since a few of the rods have lower prices. Both list the numbered rods. I have posted a few photos below. Any thoughts?
Interact My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Reply Quote
cwfly		#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 986 06/29/2009 13:04	rckdr, fascinating catalog and you are kind to share it. For simplicity, here is a link to the earlier thread. The brook runs over the bones of the planet and carries the sky on its back…. Odell Shepard
Interact My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Reply Quote
pcg		#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3043 06/29/2009 14:45 Admin	rckdr, Stunning! You've got the only known copies (emphasis on "known") of Edwards catalogs printed prior to his death. Interesting that these are all surfacing within a couple month period. Until a few months ago, Edwards catalogs simply didn't seem to exist. And now it appears we have three, including the one I have from '33. My '33 catalog, which I think I referenced as being probably 1930ish & clearly reprinted by Bristol in '33, also shows the same numbered rods. My theory though, based on the actual rod components I've handled, was that the numbered rods are post-1932, but that the rods were previously given inventory (or catalog) numbers. The numbers simply began appearing on the rods in the Bristol era, whereas they had just been inventory numbers before, w/o the number being scribbled on the cane. For instance, the Edwards Special in 8' is shown in the catalog as #50. It never appears though on Edwards-signed Special as "Special #50." That applies across the board to numerous models. The De Luxe, the Special, the Mt Carmel--all of these rods exist in versions actually signed by Edwards, but none of the signed Edwards rods have a catalog number below the signature. So I think at some point after EW's death the catalog numbers morphed into model numbers & began appearing as script on the rods. But that isn't proven--theories are only that--and I think your 1929 catalog begins in fact to argue against my earlier opinion. Regardless, I'm excited that a few more pieces are beginning to come together. It's been a black hole for many years. I'll drop you a PM as I have another question for you-- Pat Last Edited By: pcg 06/29/2009 15:22. Edited 1 time.
Interact My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Reply Quote
rckdr		#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 64 06/29/2009 20:33	Makes sense. I think that interest in Edwards rods may be increasing as a result of the two recently published well-researched books, and we may see more stuff come out of closets. I suspect that prices of Edwards rods will go up as well. They already seem to be rising.
Interact My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Reply Quote
RPL		#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 219 06/29/2009 22:56	rckdr: Congrats on a fascinating find! So model numbers like "124A", which are more than simply inventory numbers, were contemporary with E. W. Edwards. Whether EWE made your model "124A" cannnot be confirmed, but I think that possibility is strengthened. Some of the Edwards models noted in your Mt. Carmel catalog must have remained in the Edwards inventory in some stage of completion after EWE's death, and those rods could very well have been transferred to the Bristol Co. as part of the estimated 130 rods that conveyed to Bristol after its acquisition of Edwards, as I have tried to argue in the previous thread on this subject. The retail value of those rods would have been considerable, exceeding the price that Bristol paid for the Edwards rod company. Recall that the total production at Mt. Carmel was a little over 1000 rods, so 130 is a very significant portion of its total rodmaking history. The Bristol Company would have wanted to highlight the connection of those exquisite rods to the famous E.W. Edwards. How better to accomplish that marketing strategy than to assign them the "E.W. Edwards Autograph" designation along with their original model numbers. There are probably very few rods, probably under 100, inscribed "E.W. Edwards Autograph" so the numbers appear to be about right. This scenario is a relatively simple explanation of why Edwards himself did not sign these rods, why the rods appear to meet the high standards of EWE, why there are so few rods like this, and how Bristol capitalized on the Edwards autograph. I noticed that your Mt. Carmel catalog features "Autographed Custom-Made" and not "E.W. Edwards Autograph," the latter being the insciption on your rod. After EWE's death, "autograph," but not "autographed," would have been appropriate in the context of the above scenario. So it's also quite likely that during EWE's lifetime, the rods EWE himself made or presided over never included the "E.W. Edwards Autograph" inscription. After his death, it would have been logical and appropriate to differentiate those rods from others -- and especially when it was in Bristol's commercial interest to do so. How better to justify such a high price for a rod in the early 1930s? Would also note that the inscription on your rod notes the model number as #124A - 7'. Your Mt. Carmel catalog (c. 1929) denotes that model in that same manner: 124A -7 feet. The later Bristol-published catalog denotes that model as 124 - A 7 feet. Bristol's erroneous placement of the hyphen is interesting because it implies that whoever set the type or proof-read that 1933 catalog was not familiar with the original model number. Maybe the marketing department was already becoming slightly unhinged from production?
Interact My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Reply Quote
PaducahMichael		#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 728 06/29/2009 23:10	rckdr wrote: Makes sense. I think that interest in Edwards rods may be increasing as a result of the two recently published well-researched books, and we may see more stuff come out of closets. I suspect that prices of Edwards rods will go up as well. They already seem to be rising. Yep - it always seems to work that way. Two months after the book is printed, someone turns up with the "missing link" that would have made the book even better. Cheer up, though, Patrick - that's why second editions were invented. And don't do what I did - I waited a LONG time for more great stuff to surface. It seems it only comes around AFTER the book containing all known info to date is actually printed. Have fun! The New Divine Rods
Interact My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Reply Quote
rckdr		#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 65 06/30/2009 18:01	RPL, although the retail value of the "holdover" rods was considerable, the Edwards family never saw much of that money. From what I have read, Horton welched on the deal and paid them less than 25% of the amount originally agreed upon.
Interact My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Reply Quote
RPL		#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 220 07/05/2009 11:32	rckdr: Appears to have been a buyer's market in the early 1930s. Yes, promises may have been broken, and Horton might not have followed through on its commitment to buy those rods and the company at the agreed upon price. It's not clear that the Edwards Co. could have clinched a better deal with someone else. Those were hard times, even more severe than conditions now. A deepening recession in the early 1930s had crushed consumer demand, with the government watching from the sidelines. The downturn probably contributed to that significant inventory buildup at the Edwards Co., and many other companies, in the years prior to the 1932 Horton acquisition.
Interact My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Reply Quote

<< Previous Topic Next Topic >>

Yuku free message boards

Edwards debate revisited

Edwards debate revisited

Quick Reply