1. Is it ok to fish vintage?
2. 7-71/2 ft 4-5 wt ok for small trout streams?
3. What type of action for this rod and dry fly?
4. Rods to look for?
5. Price range?
6. What to avoid besides ebay?
Thanks!
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hula |
Converting to cane. Which older rods? |
Lead | ||
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I want to convert to cane. I have been fishing a Fenwick 8' 6", 6wt "Streamer" 3 1/8oz for 10 years on small trout streams. My grandfather
fly fished with cane and as I get older the nostalgia of it is really appealing and exciting to me. I'm wanting a rod around 7 -7 1/2 ft and either a 4 or
5 wt. I've seen some of the older rods like Orvis and Phillipson etc., but are these rods durable for fishing? I thought I might pick up one to fish with
and maybe determine what I might want in a cane rod before approaching a custom rod. I'm looking for function over aesthetics in a rod. I ran across Mr
Summers site where he builds and reapirs rods and has some pre-owned for sale and thought buying a rod from someone like this might be advantageous. I need
your valued opinions to get me started.
1. Is it ok to fish vintage? 2. 7-71/2 ft 4-5 wt ok for small trout streams? 3. What type of action for this rod and dry fly? 4. Rods to look for? 5. Price range? 6. What to avoid besides ebay? Thanks! |
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Boo.fiberglassflyro... |
#1 | |||
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Orvis rods are the most durable vintage rods ever made, period.
1. yes. 2. yes 3. what ever action you like. 4. vintage Orvis Battenkill. new Mike Brooks Permacane. 5. $600-$700 6. nothing wrong with ebay. there are some great deals. avoid the sly dealer and posters on this forum with less than 10 posts.
Last Edited By: Boo 07/04/2009 14:53.
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Canewrap |
#2 | |||
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Yeah, there is nothing wrong with Ebay, but until you know more about bamboo I would strongly recommend steering away from making any first purchases there.
You don't know enough about makers to judge what their actions are like and its tough buying sight unseen until you do. Also, a lot of the Ebay rod sellers
won't tell you everything wrong with the rod and you need to know what to ask. Getting your first rod from an established dealer would be a much better
idea IMHO. You know that you'll get a rod that you won't have to fix first to fish and most dealers stand behind what they sell. I too, would stongly
recommend an Orvis 7'6" as your first rod. Just be sure to get one of the older flamed cane ones and not the blond 80's rods (overpriced and not
as good). A rod like that will hold its value and you can fish hard without fear.
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Eperous |
#3 | |||
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Welcome to cane..... bamboo is like eating Lays potato chips.... hard to do just one.... got back into cane about four years ago myself.... now I've
assembled a small and modest collection of 10 bamboo rods or so from several different builders and rod companies.... if I only had one that I intended to fish
dries, wets, streamers, and weighted nymphs, it would probably be a used Orvis Battenkill - I own two of them, one is 58 years old, almost my age.... the old
Battenkills are like Timex watches, they just keep on doing what they are suppose to do.... you could probably pick up a good used 5 weight for $400 (maybe
not) to $750 (easily)..... I think the best part of purchasing a cane rod is gathering data on different rods and casting several before choosing.... good luck
whatever you do, and remember, it's hard to own only one..... you are crossing over to the dark side now, and there's no turning back once you
cross....
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hula |
#4 | |||
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This is easing my fear of fishing vintage rods. I have been reading about South Bend rods and bought a #290 7' 6" 5wt off ebay tonight for 144.00. I
figured for that price I couldn't get hurt too bad and I could figure out what I like. The seller had 100% rating and a 5 day return. Any things to look
for when I get it?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110408228965&_trkparms=tab%3DWatching |
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BlackHillsBill |
#5 | |||
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The Orvis will bite deeper into a budget-minded start. On the other hand, it will last a long, long time with minimal care. I had a Midge 7'6", which I fished hard for over thirty years before finally replacing it with another. When I got it in 1966, Orvis had a monthly installment payment plan, so I could also manage a Hardy Princess reel for it. Now we think--I can't imagine why--a credit card is the best way to "defer" payments. The Midge and the Battenkill 7'6" rods are still around in abundance, but you have to search to beat an $800 or so price tag on one in excellent condition. The classifieds on the Forum often turn up bargain classics as Drew (ted golden) has pointed out, and I have found sellers here very trustworthy. The rod you just got, a South Bend 290, is a very sound starting-out rod. But any rod acquired through auction could well need some refurbishing--and it isn't that hard to do. Michael Sinclair"s Bamboo Rod Restoration Handbook (1994) is still the best around on the subject and treats all the good old production rods. It is relatively easy to do rewraps, ferrule bluing, grip and reelseat replacements, and varnish jobs (no dip tube necessary, just a steady hand with a small foam brush and a can of Ace Hardware spar varnish, economical and excellent). Follow up with some Meguiar's or a gun-stock polish, and you'll have a very handsome rod. Cork grips, sporting the crud of the ages, will come clean surprisingly easily with a little rubbing alcohol followed by a light coat of Birkenstock Cork Life to make them more ridge resistant). I've owned the SB 290, by the way, and it was more than adequate on both small and fairly large streams, for instance on the Green River below Flaming Gorge. My only beef with the rod was that SB stinted too much on the number of snake guides. It would benefit from one more. I was about to redo the guides and wraps with an addition, but then sold the rod. It's fairly easy also to pick up an H-I Tonka Queen in reasonably good condition, one with two tips, for under $350. A little spit and polish, and you end up with a 7'9" 5 wt, which fishes well on just about any sort of water, barring brawny steelhead or salmon rivers of course. One caveat: Until you get really good at it, leave the restoration of more expensive rods to expert rodmakers. It's on the bargain rods you should be able to become proficient yourself. On the crown jewels you'll eventually start acquiring, trust only the professionals. One last point. You've stated a preference for smaller 4- or 5-wt rods. And they are certainly the bread-and-butter for contemporary rodmakers and fun to fish. They weren't, however, the mainstay for the classic production rodmakers, who produced many more 8-, 8-1/2-, and 9-footers. If you give it a little practice, you'll be suprised how versatile a good, very reasonably priced 6-wt rod is. The 8-1/2' Phillipson Peerless Dry Fly Special, a 6-wt impregnated beauty, will do nearly anything you'd want a good fly rod to do. It's a pleasure, not at all wearisome, to fish. John Gierach is especially knowledgeable about the longer classics, which he loves. See his Fishing Bamboo. This may have been more than you wanted or can swallow at one gulp. Sorry about that.
Last Edited By: BlackHillsBill 07/05/2009 12:02.
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bluejayee |
#6 | |||
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Hi Guys, You just can't do better than a #290 for $144. It's the most Jordanish/Orvisish/fishingish [ist?] rod around. Make sure there's no
"click' in the ferrules. DON'T fish it if it does. Get it fixed right away. It's an easy fix on SBs and cheap.. Welcome. Jay Edwards
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hula |
#7 | |||
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You guys are awesome and I will look for Sinclair's book ! I'm excited to get the SB rod and when you refer to "click" in the ferrules, is
that indicative of them being loose? If I send it to someone to fix, are there any recommendations of who? I've been looking at vintage reels for it. So
far a Hardy LRH and a Berkley 540. Any other suggestions?
Thanks |
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Canewrap |
Re: SB 290 | #8 | ||
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Make sure you try a 6wt line on it as well. A lot of people will advertise their 290s as 5wts. because it helps them sell better, but I have never run into a
true 5wt. SB 290 unless it was hard used. The most common line wt. back in the day was 6wt. and 5wts. were considered light.
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hula |
#9 | |||
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What years was this rod produced?
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OldCanerods |
#10 | |||
hula wrote:You got a good rod and it will serve you well. Things to look for are: 1) Damage to the cane, most likely on the tip sections. 2) Reelseat or ferrules that need to be reglued. The clicking in ferrules is most likely a loose ferrule to cane, but can be male to female fit. 3) Guides that are loose and need to be rewrapped. 4) Damage to the varnish. Dipping a finger into varnish and going over missing varnish spot is a simple fix. |
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BlackHillsBill |
#11 | |||
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From about 1942 into the early 50's.
Last Edited By: BlackHillsBill 07/05/2009 17:11.
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Drew Creek |
SB 290 | #12 | ||
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Hula:
Interesting.. my first bamboo was a SB290 and I've fished it hard and often for several years... then picked up an Orvis 8' 3/2 pat. pend. And then added others... the 290 is still mine and I pull it out from time to time and enjoy it for what it is. It has intact labels, intact wraps but the wraps had to be touched up and a few spots on the varnish needed to be addressed after a while. I did that with a fine brush and it'll do. I'll take it to a professional buider soon. It still has the original tube in fair condition and completely original bag without evidence of excessive wear. The comments by those above are all on the mark... although I like mine with a 5 wt...personal choice I suppose. I was told to look for several things: bent or misshapen guides, missing guides, re-wrapped guides or ferrules, separations in the sections/glue lines, loose ferrules, severely set tips, soundness of the cork and reel seat. Condition of wraps and varnish. Mine has an uplocking reelseat that has a plastic insert and you should watch out for shrinkage or warping. Does the screw mechanism work or stick. Is the cane sound? Since mine was offered by a dealer I trusted, no problems. Its a good rod and its a good bet it won't be your last. Mine turned out to be a good place to start...and I like to fish it on small streams. DC
Last Edited By: Drew Creek 07/06/2009 12:35.
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Pete from MA |
#13 | |||
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I've got a 290 that I fished for 30 years (only recently have I "upgraded"). on mine the ferules are great and have the perfectly smooth
insertion. I think I'm lucky with mine in that a cortland 444 5 wt DT fits it perfectly. One item of note, mine has a very small stripping guide (I believe
Silk lines were used at the time) . I found the small guide sometimes has an effect when I'm mending line and I dont get a smooth releas of the extra line
(its sometimes gets caught up on the narrow guide) Its not a big deal but its something I noticed. Although I've upgraded I find I'm a better fisherman
with the 290 ...I think you will like it ...mine has that weird grip with the thumb indent. I happen to like the large grip on it ...the rod feels like it
means business and I'm not a wuss holding it...I definitely like the 290. I think you made a good choice.
Last Edited By: Pete from MA 07/06/2009 12:06.
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hula |
#14 | |||
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Thanks.
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wb4tjh |
#15 | |||
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That 290 will do you well. I also have the same Fenwick graphite Streamer rod you have, and I think the old Orvis Battenkill or Madison tapers would feel
familiar to you. They have the same basic, full loading, progressive taper the Fenwick Streamer has.
Bill Anderson, Sarsota, Fl. "Bamboo is the Benchmark in flyrods". |
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hula |
#16 | |||
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Funny you mention that, I bought a 1954 Orvis Battenkill 7 1/2 the other day! All original, no repairs, two tips with sock and tube and excellent condition.
I've had a lot of people tell me that was a good all around rod to have so I was afraid to let it go. This is rapidly becoming an obsession!
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john channer |
#17 | |||
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"Nothing wrong with Ebay"??????? This said on a site where there was a whole forum devoted to exposing attempted fraud on ebay that was finally
closed because the conversations got so heated, unbelievable. If you're going to do business on ebay then make sure you can return anything you buy if it
doesn't match the description.
john |
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Grandhogair |
#18 | |||
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My first bamboo rod was also a SB290. I used it with a Cortland peach DT6 wt. It was and is a nice rod for the price. Try a Pflueger 1495 on it. Fish it
and then get ready to spend. Don't overlook current makers they are making wonderful fishing rods for fair prices and most will be routinely discussed on
the forum in terms of actions etc. I have a nice mix of vintage and new rods and if I had it to do over again I would be ordering/buying more rods from
current makers sooner. My fishing buddy started his addiction with several Orvis rods (still wish I had bought the Limestoner he sold to Carmine) but now uses
rods based on Payne tapers finished out from Hal Bacon blanks. Beautifully casting classic tapers.
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