Tup's Variations

0 Kudo

Author	Comment
Persaud		#21	[url]	[-]
Posts: 88 10/20/2007 11:55	Thanks Joaniebo will send mailing info later today. Very kind of you. I say five dozen because something new like this will be in demand with my "Flies and Lies" crew down at the Legion on Tuesday nights, but any will do. Last Edited By: Persaud 10/23/2007 09:47. Edited 1 time.
Interact My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Reply Quote
joaniebo		#22	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1209 10/23/2007 18:39	Persaud A bag of the Tup's dubbing was mailed to you earlier today. Enjoy. Cheers Bob
Interact My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Reply Quote
abingram	Tup's Variations	#23	[url]	[-]
Posts: 33 11/24/2007 12:24	Bob and Cloozoe , Those are some great looking flies for the Tup's Nymph. What hooks did you use? I know that Leisenring wrote that the hooks should be of heavy wire. I like your dubbing mixture better than the one shown on page 138 of Nemes "Two Centuries of Soft-Hackled Flies." Yours looks as if it has a more life-like appearance. Barry.
Interact My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Reply Quote
Cloozoe		#24	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3476 11/25/2007 13:27 Immoderate	Barry - I use TMC9300 for those. S-1XH.
Interact My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Reply Quote
joaniebo		#25	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1231 11/26/2007 23:08	Barry The hooks used in the Tup's photo I posted at the beginning were all tied on size 14 Daiichi #1190 dry fly barbless hooks. But I've been using quite a few of the Daiichi #1550 (supposedly the equivalent of Mustad's #3906) and also the Daiichi #D1560 (Mustad's #3906B) for many of the soft hackles tied with a head or thorax. Also use the Daiichi #1640 (2X Short - Straight eye - wide gape) hooks for soft hackles without a head or thorax ... looks like the older style, short-bodied soft hackled flies. Cheers and Safe Fishing Bob PS - Decided to tie a few more of the Tup's as close as I could to the Leisenring / Hidy pattern and here's a pic of them using both the blue and honey dun hackles (only exception is I used Pearsall's Primrose Floss instead of buttonhole twist): Last Edited By: joaniebo 12/02/2007 15:32. Edited 2 times.
Interact My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Reply Quote
shakeylee		#26	[url]	[-]
Posts: 4 12/14/2007 23:53	i use the tups pink seal fur from feather craft,but i can see now a blend would be interesting to try. BTW,although not classic ,i have a great deal of luck in late spring with olive hen hackle on an otherwise traditional tup's indespensible.
Interact My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Reply Quote
trouting	materials & description for tups	#27	[url]	[-]
Posts: 279 01/27/2008 17:21	Leisenring speaks of 'primrose buttonhole twist' for the Tups body. Can someone tell me what this is? Skues speaks of 'hare's poll' what is this? A poll is the crown i.e. top of the head (also 'hill'). Is he referring to something different from our hare's ear? Some of Feather-craft's 'tups real seal fur' just arrived in the mail and I am quite dissapointed in it - it is far to red and not complex enough. Trouting
Interact My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Reply Quote
invariamt		#28	[url]	[-]
Posts: 8 01/27/2008 17:48	Buttonhole twist is a spun silk that was used by tailors/seamstress' for sewing..you guessed it buttonholes. It's no longer made the way it once was but can often be found on e-bay. Using pearsalls marabou and twisting a single strand of the floss is a very acceptable substitute. Hare's poll refers to the fur taken from between the ears of an English hare. Hope this helps Regards, Mike http://www.greatfeathers.com/catalog/
Interact My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Reply Quote
joaniebo		#29	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1303 01/27/2008 17:58	from "The Art of Tying The Wet Fly & Fishing The Flymph" by James E. Leisenring and Vernon S. Hidy. - 1971 Edition. "Buttonhole Twist Substitute Better than the buttonhole twist available today (1970), however, is Pearsall's Marabou floss silk, which is available from Veniard in England in both primrose and light yellow. For small flies, use just one of the two strands that are twisted together on the spool." Look back on this posting and see Ken's pic of the Tup's dubbing color that dates back to circa 1950s (right, Ken). I think many on this forum would agree that Ken's dubbing and on Cloozoe's nymph to be very close to the coloring of the original in color and texture. To me, Hare's Poll would be the hair at the top of a rabbit between the ears. Cheers & Safe Fishing Bob
Interact My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Reply Quote
slw	a tup's	#30	[url]	[-]
Posts: 51 01/27/2008 19:12	http://www.danica.com/flytier/swilliams/tups_indispensible.htm
Interact My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Reply Quote
mvendon	Tup's Variations	#31	[url]	[-]
Posts: 12 01/28/2008 19:42	Bob, I have to politely disagree with you about Ken's dubbing. It just has way too much red in it. I tried posting this a couple of times, but the picture that I wanted to show kept displaying tiny. I hope that the fourth or fifth time is the charm. I found some old Mad River Beaver dubbing while looking for something else a couple of months ago in my tying area. It was a real eye opener, at least for me. I stuck a piece of as - received fleece in the pic too so you can see just how filthy it is. It makes one wonder if R.S. Austin really took the time to clean this, or if he just used yearling fleece from another area that was much easier to clean just once. I adjusted the formula for the pink Tup's to equal parts of ram and spaniel, a half part of cream seal, and a quarter part of red seal fur. The original yellow version is un-changed from last summer. Pretty close wouldn't you say? Regards, Mark
Interact My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Reply Quote
joaniebo		#32	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1304 01/28/2008 21:36	Mark I'm still sticking with the color from Ken's pic since his family has been tying flies from WAY back ... several generations, long before many of our current fly tying suppliers were in business, especially those trying to duplicate some of the European patterns & materials. In addition, in Jim Leisenring & Vern Hidy's book (The Art of Tying The Wet Fly & Fishing The Flymph), the recipe calls for "thorax or shoulder of yellow and claret seal's fur mixed dubbing spun on primrose yellow silk." If it (claret & yellow) was good enough for Leisenring & Hidy, it sure as heck is good enough fror this old guy. Cheers and Safe Fishing Bob
Interact My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Reply Quote
slw	tup's	#33	[url]	[-]
Posts: 52 01/28/2008 22:36	The problem with the tup's description in the Leisenring/Hidy book is that it doesn't say much about color quality or quantity. FWIW, here's my attempt to scan an image of a Leisenring tied Tup's Nymph from an article by Gordan Wickstram in Art of Angling Journal Vol. 1, Issue 3. Not exactly sure how this scan is going to come out, but I assure you the color in the original AAJ image is very much closer to Jeff Serrena's blend than any thing else shown here. Last Edited By: slw 01/28/2008 23:04. Edited 1 time.
Interact My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Reply Quote
Ken M 44		#34	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2086 01/29/2008 05:42 Moderatus Britannicus	Bob et al, you are correct - the two scanned dubbing samples are from the original Messena blend purchased circa 1950 and a later Veniard blend (which is 100% seals fur and totally inaccurate) - both are darker than they are in real light. The older blend is correct in composition but the taste at that time was for a mixture to use for the darker range of Sherry spinners and this could easily be cut down with cream seal's fur to closer replicate the original dressing, commercially made up mixtures always omitted the spaniel fur because of sourcing issues and one has to assume that regular sheep's wool was used for the same reason, there is no need here to specifically differentiate between Tup's and Ram's, etc. For the sake of absolute accuracy below is a transcript of an article written by Skues and published in the journal of The Flyfisher's Club. There can be no doubt that until this was published the actual composition was a commercial secret so any writings prior to the date of publication would have to be based on supposition or dissection of flies tied by Austin. 'The secret of the Tup's Indispensible' G.E.M. Skues Flyfishers' Club Journal, Summer 1934 Here is the true and authentic pattern. It is too much to hope that at last we may now see the true patterns on sale in tackle shops? Since it was first evolved by the late Mr R. S. Austin of Tiverton, in 1900, the pattern of troutfly known as Tup's Indispensible has been widely known and used all the world over, in fact, wherever the brown trout is to be found, though too often (in the hands of other dressers, to whom the secret of its composition was unknown) tied with materials and in ways differing widely from the combination which the inventor would have approved; but down to the present time the secret of that combination has been rigidly preserved. I believe that the late C. A. Hassam and I were the only two persons outside his own family to whom the late Mr R. S. Austin confided the particulars of the composition of the dubbing which was the distinguishing and essential feature of that fly, and Hassam kept the secret religiously down to the day of his death, and I have kept it no less scrupulously down to the present day. I have always had it in my mind that the prescription was so valuable to anglers at large that it ought not to be lost, and it was my intention, if it were not disclosed in my lifetime, to leave a record of it to be made public when the time for its disclosure came. That time has now arrived, and I have been generously released from the moral obligation which so long bound me to keep it a secret, while fuming at the many absurd abortions which tackle dealers were selling as the real thing. I believe that I was the first angler to use the magic dubbing. I was, at the time, in constant correspondence with Mr R. S. Austin. the date I do not exactly recall, but, from a note in Mr Austin's handwriting describing its first use, I judge the date to have been June 1900. ...... The essential part of this dubbing is the highly translucent wool from the indispensable part of a Tup, thoroughly washed and cleansed of the natural oil of the animal. This wool would by itself, be like seals fur, somewhat intractable and difficult to spin on the tying silk, but an admixture of the pale pinkish and very filmy fur from an English hare's poll had the effect of rendering it easy to work. There was also in the original pattern an admixture of cream coloured seal's fur and combing's from a lemon yellow spaniel, and the desired dominating colour was obtained by working in a small admixture of red mohair. For the mohair I generally substituted seal's fur, and I believe Mr Austin did so himself. When wet the Tup's wool becomes somehow illuminated throughout by the colour of the seal's fur or mohair, and the entire effect of the body is extraordinarily filmy and insect-like. In an unpublished volume of his favourite dressings Mr Austin described the pattern in the following terms: No 28 The Red Spinner. The hackled fly is tied with yellow silk on a N. 00 Sneck bend hook. It is made with a body sparsely dressed, of a mixture of white ram's wool and lemon coloured Spaniel's fur in equal parts, and a little fur from a hare's poll, and sufficient red mohair to give the mixture a pinkish shade. It is hackled with a yellow spangled lightish blue cock's hackle and has whisks of the same colour. I myself, suffering from a constitutional incapacity to leave well alone, developed a number of variations of the pattern, according as it was to be used as a nymph, spinner or pale watery dun, and Mr Austin, while he stuck to his standard patter for the public, agreed that by varying the proportions of the carious ingredients the dresser would get varying effects. He sent me a pattern of a little dark red spinner for use in July. It was dressed on the same principle, and I have a sample of it somewhere. My variations were made by using different shades of seal's fur, not only in the reds but oranges, yellows, cream and a range of olives, and in all shades I found the pattern useful. The reds and orange dressed with sharp cock's hackles made a range of spinners, and a small light golden spinner may be similarly hackled. The pale yellow and the cream hackled with pale blue cock's hackles reproduce the pale watery duns, while the same colour and the olive hackled with a short soft woolly hen's hackle produce a series of nymphs, which are quite attractive. Different shades were also produced by varying the quantity of seal's fur. In his Modern Developments of the Dry Fly (1911 Edition p162) F. M. Halford call's Tup's Indispensible a fancy hackled pattern, though later in the same page he admits that it "is a pattern resembling in many ways some spinners." I do not know whether the pattern on which he saw three fish hooked and two landed (one of them over 3lb.) was tied by Austin (for Halford's description of the dressing is very lacking in detail), but in calling the pattern a fancy pattern he was in error, for that which he saw was undoubtedly a representation of a spinner and the pattern may be varied in a number of ways so as to suggest effectively not only a series of spinners, but also pale watery duns and a series of nymphs. Me Austin meant his fly for "the ordinary red spinner which comes on in April, and lasts goodness knows how long afterwards." He used to wind on two or three turns of Pearsall's yellow silk to show at the tail. He wrote: "The small yellow tip is conspicuous in the natural fly, and I have regarded it as a very desirable feature in the imitation." ......... The effect of mixing hare's poll with intractable materials like pig's wool and seal's fur was known to me some years before the invention of Tup's Indispensible. I owe it, in fact, to Headley F. Norris in the prescription which he gave me in the middle nineties for the make up of a seal's fur body of a March Brown, in which were combined the sweepings of a whole series of green, yellow, olive, orange and red seal's fur, teased up, together with an admixture of hare's poll to blend the mixture and make it tractable. Other soft furs such as blue English squirrel may be used for the same purpose, but the advantage of the hare's poll is that it does not produce the dirty effects which blue furs produce, but it blends in nicely with the various seal's furs and basic wool. Sometimes in tying Tup's Indispensible I omit the yellow spaniel fur and substitute a little brownish yellow seal's fur with no green in it. Most of the points raised previously are dealt with in this text but the main point to me is that only two or three turns of yellow silk are used at the tail and the body is dubbed - it is not dressed as just a thorax as so often seen. It should also be sparse. I am always surprised at the interest in the body dubbing - far more of a problem these days has to be finding a 'yellow spangled lightish blue cock's hackle' !! My own experience and that of my family is that the pattern is actually more effective tied with progressively darker bodies as the year progresses, it also helps if the hook size reduces a little also. I think also that we need to be specific as to which fly we are discussing - I am concerned here only with the original dry fly pattern and not the many variations or approximations that have followed - although many were originated by Skues it is only the Austin pattern that can represent the original. Last Edited By: Ken M 44 01/29/2008 05:48. Edited 1 time.
Interact My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Reply Quote
joaniebo		#35	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1305 01/29/2008 11:44	Mark In going through some of my fly tying materials, I noticed that you previously sent me a small sample of the Tup's dubbing that you use. My apologies for not remembering it before today (as a friend again told me this morning, "Old age isn't for sissies!") ! In looking at / comparing your and Ken's dubbings, both are of similar texture and appearance ... .yours is just a little / tad lighter. If I added a pinch or so of yellow or natural seal (or light hare's ear) to Ken's coloring, they would be a close match. Best Bob
Interact My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Reply Quote
creakycane	Silk Buttonhole twist	#36	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1442 01/29/2008 12:33	If you come across any size D , buttonhole silk (Belding Corticelli and others) in pale yellow, yellow or olive shades, its worth picking up. It will likely be on small wood spools, slightly narrower than gossamer spools, but slightly bigger in diameter....Grandma's sewing box would be a good place to look...... It looks like firmly twisted Marabou-dia silk (or, as the '71 Leisenring'Hidy book say, doubled and twisted Gossamer) with distinct ridges. It makes a VERY nice body for a soft hackle with a thorax of rabbit or seal or tups and a turn of skipe or waterhen. While gossamer is a good sub, since we are being rather picky! in this thread about tups blends, I'll say that the buttonhole produces a subtle ribbed effect that gossamer/marabou has trouble replicating........
Interact My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Reply Quote
creakycane	Tups Color	#37	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1443 01/29/2008 12:43	Atherton, no amateur impressionist tier, suggests red and natural seal to get the pink-tan color of his Tups Variant. I like the stuff from feathercraft, and use it 1: 1 with hare's mask to give a rather pink buggy blend.
Interact My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Reply Quote
kaaterskill		#38	[url]	[-]
Posts: 96 01/29/2008 13:20	I just read through this thread again, and (unless I missed it) was suprised to not find any references to what I think is one of the few if not only published photos of the dubbing material and authentic tups wool. Check out page 98 in Jacqueline Wakeford's FlyTying Tools and Materials published in 1991 by Black in London.
Interact My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Reply Quote
trouting		#39	[url]	[-]
Posts: 280 01/29/2008 13:49	Thanks to all for the help with terminology. What a facinating fly!
Interact My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Reply Quote
moregrayling		#40	[url]	[-]
Posts: 729 01/29/2008 14:21	kaaterskill wrote: I just read through this thread again, and (unless I missed it) was suprised to not find any references to what I think is one of the few if not only published photos of the dubbing material and authentic tups wool. Check out page 98 in Jacqueline Wakeford's FlyTying Tools and Materials published in 1991 by Black in London. not the only one. the link below features some of the real stuff as well. best from "krautland", christian http://users.cybercity.dk/~bcc25154/Web/tup's_indispensable.htm
Interact My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Invite Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Reply Quote

<< Previous Topic Next Topic >>

Yuku free message boards

Tup's Variations

Quick Reply