Reading Armchair Angler's post from a few days ago about 9' versus 8 1/2' Grangers got me thinking - how do people feel the 8 1/2' Grangers
compare to the 8 1/2' Phillipsons? I know the Phillipsons were 5 oz versus the 4 1/2 oz Granger 8642, so they're a little heavier, but how does that
affect the action? Anybody know how the tapers compare? And more generally, is the Granger a noticeably better rod? The Phillipsons go for much cheaper
(just picked one up on Ebay, in fact, because I wanted an 8 1/2 foot rod but the Grangers were out of my price range) is that because the Grangers are actually
better tools to fish with or are they just more collectible these days?
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Follow up - 8 1/2' Granger vs 8 1/2' Phillipson
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 bamboostudent |
Follow up - 8 1/2' Granger vs 8 1/2' Phillipson |
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Posts: 11 05/20/2008 22:11 |
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tedgolden |
#1 | |||
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Posts: 2473 05/21/2008 00:51 Moderator |
The heirarchy that has existed between G Granger, W&M Granger and Phillipson has been around for a long time. And in essentially the same pecking order.
That Phillipson typically comes in 3rd in a three horse race not due to "fishability" but rather to the even more intangible qualities of cosmetics
and perceived cachet. Discerning anglers have objected to the Phillipson glue lines, visable as purple seams on the blank. That the purple seams were a
necessary byproduct of a superior glue which was at the time, a technological upgrade seems to be lost amongst those that cannot abide their sight. And those
gawd-awful, butt ugly reel seats used by Phillipson didn't earn many high marks in the aesthetics department. But reels didn't fall off, nor did the
mechanical workings of their simplistic approach fail as one occasionally finds amongst their higher priced Denver relatives. And eliptical grips? There is
an answer to a question no one was asking! Yes, there are slight casting differences between each maker. But so slight that the difference is insignificant.
To me, Phillipson earnis high marks for innovation, Granger for tradition, and Wright McGill for keeping it going.
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pvansch1 |
#2 | |||
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Posts: 3621 05/21/2008 11:27 Moderator |
I am on my 3rd 8.5' Phillipson, the two I have sold were for about what I paid. The reason for selling both was the need for $$.
This current one, though - i'm hanging on to. I have not cast an original Granger or W&M in this length, but for the money I'll stick to the Phillipson's. Tedgolden's answer hit the nail on the head though. Pete |
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Ben Kann |
Granger vs. Phillipson @ 8 1/2' | #3 | ||
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Posts: 73 05/21/2008 17:39 |
I recently did repairs on an 8 1/2' Phillipson and at about the same time acquired a W&M Granger Victory 8642. With an opportunity like that I had them
both out in the yard to do a direct comparison. The Philipson seems a little lighter in the tip (and a LITTLE) faster, the Granger seems more powerful with
both DT5 and WF6 lines (but a bit slower and more controlled). The Hammer handle on the Phillipson, however, is something fabulous and would let you swing a
rod all day long without any hand fatigue. I wonder how you'd go about shaping a thing like that(?)
Ben |
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gatroutboy |
#4 | |||
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Posts: 69 05/21/2008 17:44 |
I am the proud owner of a 8'6ft Phillipson...although I dont get to fish it as much as I would like. I have casted it side by side with my fathers 8642
and personally, I prefer the Phillipson. I agree that it felt just a touch quicker than the Granger, and I actually like the looks of the Phillipsons,
particularly the Power Pakt's. I think for fishability the Phillipsons and Grangers are about the same, its personal choice.
Rich |
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 greendrake ll |
#5 | |||
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Posts: 668 05/21/2008 20:25 |
I agree with tedgolden on this one.Bill Phillipson was the driving force that pushed the Granger Rods to their reputation and he made it possible for the
company to continue being successful after Goodwin Granger died.I just put a very nice 8 1/2' Phillipson trade rod for sale in the forum classifieds if
anyone is interested.
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bamboostudent |
rod grades and line weights? | #6 | ||
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Posts: 12 05/22/2008 00:43 |
Very interesting. Thanks to all for your insights, particularly Tedgolden for your thorough reply. Glad to hear the Phillipsons stack up well against the
Grangers, at least for fishability. While I've got this thread going, I figured I might as well ask about two other things I've been wondering about.
First - what are people's feelings on the differences between rod grades (this applies to the Grangers as well)? I've heard from some that the
differences were primarily cosmetic (wraps, tipping, etc.) but from others that the higher grades actually cast a little sweeter.
Second - to those of you that fish the 8 1/2' Phillispons, what lines are you using? So far I've only cast mine with a WF 6 because that's what I use for my (shh, don't tell anyone) graphite and it's what I had on hand. Seems to work fine, but I'm wondering if I'd get a little better performance from a DT 5 or DT 6? And any brand preferences? I've heard the Cortland Sylk (or however they spell it) is nice on bamboo. p.s. Beautiful rod, Greendrake II. Now, if only I could justify picking up another one of these babies... |
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Ben Kann |
line weights | #7 | ||
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Posts: 74 05/22/2008 08:00 |
When I did my side-by-side test I used WF5, DT5, WF6, DT6 on both. They all cast and fish well, but the DT5 was the sweetest (on both). Enough to load, a
little more speed in the tip, and of course lovely roll casting and mending control.
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pvansch1 |
#8 | |||
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Posts: 3627 05/22/2008 10:05 Moderator |
I mostly fished mine with a Cortland WF5 Peach line. Seemed to everything well.
I acquired another Pflueger 1494 that came with a DT5 Peach - Now that to me is the preferred line, just haven't had the opportunity to fish it. They are fantastic casting and fishing rods!! Pete |
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bamboostudent |
peach vs sylk? | #9 | ||
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Posts: 13 05/22/2008 12:48 |
So would you recommend the peach over the sylk? Just curious because I checked out both lines on the Cortland website and it sounds like the sylk is
supposedly designed specifically with bamboo in mind.
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byrdog |
#10 | |||
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Posts: 520 05/22/2008 15:59 |
Personally I prefer Cortlands Peach in a DT5 on my Phillipson Paragon though it does ok with an WF. I picked up a sylk line for my 4wts but haven't put in
enough time to say one way or the other whether I like as much, less or more that the peach.
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fyshstix |
#11 | |||
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Posts: 93 05/22/2008 18:50 |
The 8' and 8 1/2' Phillipsons that I get to flail about seem to perform well with the Sylk DT lines in both 5 and 6 weight here in their home waters
around Denver (South Platte). The Dry Fly Special versions are a 6wt. in my hands and the varnished versions prefer the 5wt. line. I use the rods year-round
and have the highest regard for the no-nonsense and "right tool for the job" approach employed by the Phillipson company. They can light a #22 BWO
as soft as a baby's eyelash or push a #14 caddis to the shade of the far bank. I suspect Bill knew what he was doing and they're a good value and
wonderful fishing rods. I never was much for cachet.
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tiethefly |
#12 | |||
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Posts: 994 05/22/2008 20:10 |
I own two Phillipson rods, 8.5 "Dry Fly Special" Pacemaker and a 9' Powr Pakt. Still looking for a nice Granger I can afford and fish.
"So I will arise and go now, to meet you there early and I hope , often." Arnold Gingrich "The Joys of Trout"
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firehole |
#13 | |||
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Posts: 3287 05/22/2008 20:11 Local user |
I've owned both Phillipsons including Bill's personal rod 7'6" Peerless 2/2 and Grangers and I agree the Phillipson's may be a little
faster but it's a tossup to what kind of action fits your casting style. They're both oustanding but the nod goes to Grangers beauty. There's not a
Phillipson that can touch the beauty of a Deluxe or the Favorite. The hammer grip was first used on Grangers not Phillipson's as shown on my 7' Deluxe.
If anybody wants to disagree with my opinion please do. The upper Grangers models set themselves apart from Phillipson's for collectibility but I also
agree Phillipson's are undervalued IMHO.
Dennis 
Granger Favorite8642 
Last Edited By: firehole 08/29/1959 15:11.
Edited 2 times.
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BlackHillsBill |
#14 | |||
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Posts: 2687 05/23/2008 09:13 |
tedgolden wrote: What Drew said. He knows whereof he speaks and puts the whole case about as well as it can be put. We all have benchmarks for evaluating fellow fly
fishermen. How well they take to a Phillipson 8-1/2-footer is one of mine.
Oh. Be sure to review what flyshstix wrote regarding fishing a whole array of Phillipsons. That's what it's about--fishing them. I would take a lot of convincing--and probably torture--in order to find the Peerless Dry Fly Special unpretty. Why it's a darb, a darling, as good to look at as it is to fish. It strikes me that Bill Phillipson not only knew what he was doing in the design of the rods under his name, but also in managing the Granger operation so well while he was there.
Last Edited By: BlackHillsBill 05/23/2008 09:32.
Edited 2 times.
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tedgolden |
"Any color as long as it's black." Henry Ford | #15 | ||
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Posts: 2475 05/23/2008 10:26 Moderator |
"First - what are people's feelings on the differences between rod grades (this applies to the Grangers as well)? I've heard from some that
the differences were primarily cosmetic (wraps, tipping, etc.) but from others that the higher grades actually cast a little sweeter. "
While the addition of a guide or two may make a better casting rod, the color of the wrap, the beauty of a reel seat matters not a whit. For reasons beyond the scope of my brain, our socieity, in it's collective judgement, has decided that it is innapropriate for the town banker drive the same automobile as the town auto mechanic. For similar reasons, nor may he use the same grade of rod. It just isn't right. The unfortunte banker must differentiate himself wherever possible and this means spending more. He may not buy his gear at K-Mart or Sears and Roebuck, but shop at Mills and Son or Abercrombie and Fitch. Manufactuers have been wise to this differentiation for years and give us "choices" so that we may properly equip ourselves. Thus we have fishing rod makers having 5 or 6 different grades built essentially on the same platform but differentiated in ways which have little to do with the function of the final product. Even Henry Ford had to change his tune. Is this a great country or what? |
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bamboostudent |
#16 | |||
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Posts: 14 05/23/2008 12:03 |
Ha! Music to my ears. The student (such as myself) is pretty much on the level of the town auto mechanic in that he doesn't have much to spend on rods, so
its great to hear that I've got more or less the same tool as the banker, albeit perhaps dressed in different clothes.
Again, thanks to all have who have posted such positive comments about the Phillipsons - I'm delighted that in my relative ignorance (its only my second bamboo) I seem to have stumbled onto such a great rod. Just finished my last assignment of the term today, and now I'm itching to get this rod into fishable shape and then hit the water asap!!!! |
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WatercolorMan |
Phillipson Rods | #17 | ||
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Posts: 789 05/23/2008 13:57 |
I have a few and wanted to add my 2 cents. I have a 8' Premium "the Bankers Model" and cannot say enought good things about how the rod performs
on the water. I love the look
of the rod, unlike so others. I think they stand on there own. My point here is this size rod, the 8' er stands out from the rest for me. My 7'-6" Premium is a bit to fast for my taste, but great out west where I live and fish when the wind starts blowing, and it always seems to blow. |
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bamboostudent |
8' models | #18 | ||
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Posts: 15 05/24/2008 15:39 |
Yeah, I have heard many great things about the 8 footers, but have never had the chance to cast either a Granger or a Phillipson in that length. I would love
to get my hands on one, particularly for some of the smaller water I fish, but there's that (unfortunately) big price jump moving from the 8 1/2 to the
8' models.
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