Finally got around to writing an article on Paul H. Young and South Bend and the Comficient Controversy. Check it out at: http://fishinghistory.blogspot.com/
-- Dr. Todd
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A Little Bit of Paul Young (and South Bend/Cross) History
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 Whitefish Press |
A Little Bit of Paul Young (and South Bend/Cross) History |
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Posts: 81 04/02/2008 00:15 Sic transit piscatoria Clark's |
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Whitefish Press |
#1 | |||
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Posts: 82 04/02/2008 00:16 Sic transit piscatoria Clark's |
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quashnet |
#2 | |||
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Posts: 1872 04/02/2008 00:57 Moderatus Muscae |
What an extraordinary story. There are a couple of points that come to mind that may shed a bit more light:
In Paul H. Young's 1933 catalog - the year in which Sturgis received his grip patent - Young offered two rod models built under his own name (although, it appears, not necessarily built by him). These models were the PHY Dry Fly Special and the Depression Rod. Young also offered fly rods by Payne, Thomas, Hardy Bros., Heddon - and "Cross Fly and Bait Rods: Both Double and Single Built. Also glued-up fly and plug rod sticks and fittings, to be assembled and finished by you." If South Bend acquired Cross in 1926, then in 1933 Young was doing business with South Bend by marketing Cross products. In the 1946 catalog, Young shows an illustration of his cork rod grip in an angler's hand. The illustration is remarkably similar to the rod-in-hand illustration in the Sturgis patent document. Young writes in the catalog text: "Since 1924 we have been building these grips on new rods and remodeling old ones to this style. On heavier models, it is practical to have two thumb rests." Since preparations for a 1946 catalog would probably have taken place in 1945 or, at the latest, the very early weeks of 1946, Paul H. Young's letter to his attorney, dated November 26, 1946, almost certainly was written and mailed subsequent to publication of the 1946 catalog with its description of Young's cork grips. I don't know whether I'd call that Robert Golder fella an expert. But I can bet he'd sure like to see the full text of that 1946 letter.
Quashnet's Paul H. Young Rod Database has photos and descriptions of 290 PHY Co. rods, plus catalogs, accessories,
etc. Thank you to all who continue to send me PHY rod photos and info.
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Whitefish Press |
#3 | |||
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Posts: 83 04/02/2008 09:36 Sic transit piscatoria Clark's |
Robert,
Fantastic information. Do you know if he continued using the "gouged" handle after 1947? And yes, we would ALL consider you an expert on Paul Young! Glad you enjoyed it... -- Dr. Todd |
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quashnet |
#4 | |||
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Posts: 1873 04/02/2008 10:24 Moderatus Muscae |
Paul H. Young continued to use single and dual-thumbprint depressions in cork handles in 1947 and afterward. They were commonly used in his own personal rods;
he might not have worried about South Bend's opinion of these rods because they were not released for public sale. But the thumbprint depressions were also
used for commercially-sold rods.
Just a few PHY rods built with thumbprint flats include: PHY's own Para 16, 9'0", August 1947, dual prints PHY's own Para 16, 8'6", May 1948, dual prints 8'0" Encampment Special, July 1953, built for J. Clark Salyer PHY's own Perfectionist, 7'6", 1954, cigar grip with single print Para 20/19, built February 1954, dual prints #2168 Driggs, built 1956, single print #2194 Para 15, dual prints #2253 Martha Marie #3837 Boat Rod built shortly before PHY's death in 1960 What about those Marvin Hedge Heddon rods with the built-up thumb rests? Was the built-up method of construction an attempt to circumvent the carved-out Sturgis patent?
Quashnet's Paul H. Young Rod Database has photos and descriptions of 290 PHY Co. rods, plus catalogs, accessories,
etc. Thank you to all who continue to send me PHY rod photos and info.
Last Edited By: quashnet 04/02/2008 10:27.
Edited 1 time.
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 teter |
#5 | |||
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Posts: 881 04/02/2008 10:33 |
That's a fascinating piece of angling history. Sometimes we think the "litigious society" didn't exist until recent years, but anyone who
follows inventions and patents can tell you that's not the case -- just look at Edison, the Wright Brothers, and others who were ferocious street fighters
when it came to patents, for obvious reasons -- not just their reputations, but their businesses, were at stake.
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spruce grouse |
#6 | |||
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Posts: 990 04/02/2008 10:38 |
My Summers-made Martha Marie #4200 (made a few years after Young's death) has the thumb imprint. It was made for a long-time Young customer who had fished
PHY rods at least as early as the mid-50s and obviously liked the indentation.
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quashnet |
#7 | |||
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Posts: 1877 04/02/2008 19:41 Moderatus Muscae |
Here is Paul H. Young's discussion of grips, and the photo-illustration of his preferred grip, from the 1946 PHY catalog.
Note how the ball of the thumb is resting in an indentation. The rod is marked with Don E. West's name, followed by "Texan."
Quashnet's Paul H. Young Rod Database has photos and descriptions of 290 PHY Co. rods, plus catalogs, accessories,
etc. Thank you to all who continue to send me PHY rod photos and info.
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Whitefish Press |
#8 | |||
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Posts: 84 04/02/2008 20:06 Sic transit piscatoria Clark's |
Cool! It's very enlightening. Fascinating how the thought of getting sued helped Young to properly remember when he actually began making grips like this
("about 1930") as opposed to his more generous assessment of 1924, the likely date he started making rods. Really illuminating!
-- Dr. Todd |
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pcg |
#9 | |||
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Posts: 1408 04/03/2008 08:30 Admin |
Bob,
Do you think the flat thumb rest on the 1920s Ace is a predecessor to the indentation? Great sleuthing! |
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quashnet |
#10 | |||
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Posts: 1879 04/03/2008 08:53 Moderatus Muscae |
Patrick: This is your Young/Edwards rod that you're referring to? If so, I'd say that the indentation on your rod is not a tentative approach to a
thumb rest, but an actual example. So if it dates into the 1920's, the grip supports Young's statement in the 1946 catalog that "Since 1924, we have been building these grips..." Could you post the photo of that rod again? I didn't save a copy
of it, which was dumb. It is a gorgeous rod and ought to be in my database now that I am listing non-serial-numbered PHY rods.
Quashnet's Paul H. Young Rod Database has photos and descriptions of 290 PHY Co. rods, plus catalogs, accessories,
etc. Thank you to all who continue to send me PHY rod photos and info.
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pcg |
Young's Ace | #11 | ||
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Posts: 1411 04/03/2008 09:37 Admin |
Bob,
Here's a cut from the new Edwards' book showing the Paul H Young's Ace. The rod is mid-1920s, perhaps as late as '26. There is at least one more shot of the rod in the book, along with some Young/Edwards history from that period. 
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Whitefish Press |
#12 | |||
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Posts: 88 04/09/2008 08:48 Sic transit piscatoria Clark's |
Quick follow up. I mentioned that I believed Paul Young had real worries about South Bend suing him...Jim Jordan sent me an interesting piece from exactly the
same time Young was writing about a South Bend lawsuit against a similarly small tackle maker. Jim allowed me to post it as a follow up on my blog:
http://fishinghistory.blogspot.com/ Young must have known of South Bend's itchy legal fingers and worked to cut off a lawsuit before it happened. -- Dr. Todd |
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czkid |
South Bend | #13 | ||
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Posts: 3384 04/10/2008 07:13 Moderator |
As we were mentioning in the Cross series earlier... SB was well know as a money grubbing outfit... no wonder Wes walked.
Ralph |
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deannimal |
yes he built the depression and prosperity rods himself | #14 | ||
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Posts: 9 07/28/2008 15:27 |
It was just him and his wife at the time. They put out Depression and then Martha said when they saw prosperity around the corner, began issueing that. There
was nobody helping him on rods that early--he had the machine built in his basement. They began naming other rods he was making in 1946, his son Paul A. said.
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Quick Reply
The Orvis database by Greg Reynolds Finally available again!!
Check out the Paul Young Rod Co. database which is owned and maintained by member Robert Golder (quashnet).
Paul Young Rod Co. database by quashnet
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