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 nativebrownie |
one agate tip & one standard- info? |
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Posts: 540 10/25/2008 10:34 |
Recently, I have run across two rods both with an original agate tip top and the other standard perfection type - both original. The tips are seemingly
identical in taper. Just curious as to why makers went that route - both rods came from the 30's? Just fashion?
Thanks... NB |
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fishnbanjo |
#1 | |||
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Posts: 5683 10/25/2008 11:07 the Canefather |
The bulk of the rods I've seen as you described were F E Thomas rods and since they were so very tuned into giving the customer what they wanted my guess
this was by request. The only reason I can think for doing this was the tips were either of differing tapers, i.e. a wet and dry fly tip, and made it easier to
know which was which.
banjo
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nativebrownie |
#2 | |||
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Posts: 541 10/25/2008 11:38 |
Banjo, appreciated... The two that i have recently seen were both trade rods. One was recently built off some excellent quality blanks from an earlier era. The
tips were in place on those blanks and seem original. The other was a Heddon trade rod of excellent quality that is original (1936-38) and is advertised by the
distributor (Tyron of Philly)as having an agate stripper and one agate tip - the other is advertised as perfection style. I cannot vouch for the first rod as
to originality, but the second is original and is advertised as such. Marketing and cost cutting? Was agate seen as a definite plus in that era? Both of these
tip tops are similar is style - no double bridge - a single piece with a nice agate insert.
NB |
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fishnbanjo |
#3 | |||
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Posts: 5684 10/25/2008 12:06 the Canefather |
This is when a catalog showing the rod from the vendor would be so very helpful. Since these are trade rods it's also possible they were built this way
because the vendor had reason to believe it was something their clientèle would readily purchase, isn't trying to unravel these mysteries fun?
banjo
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SnooKen |
#4 | |||
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Posts: 726 10/25/2008 17:09 |
I also have a Heddon built Tryon Presidents series rod with one agate and a second Perfection tip, all original and as listed in their catalog. I'm
currently finishing reading the last pages of Garner's excellent "Playing With Fire" and thumbing back find that Winchester's Edwards era
rods were also offered with this tip arrangement, as were the trade rods that they seem to have made for Kirtland Bros.(a section of their 1925 catalog is
featured on page 104)
The taper on my Tryon rod tips seems identical one to the other both in measurements and casting. I'm wondering if perhaps there was some resistance to the Perfection tips initially as "old hands" may have voiced concerns about wear factors on silk lines? Offering both types of tips might have been a sales tactic to appeal to both sides of that hypothetical argument. Ken |
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nativebrownie |
#5 | |||
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Posts: 543 10/25/2008 17:13 |
Ken,
Very interesting points, I too wonder about the "appeal" of the agate at that time. Yes, acording to Sinclair's wonderful Heddon book, the Tyron trade rods were outfitted that way. I must admit that I like it - and i can see your "old hands" point... I find the agate tips on the Tyron rods (identical to the other possible Edwards blank that i handled) very attractive. NB |
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SnooKen |
#6 | |||
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Posts: 728 10/25/2008 17:49 |
One of the points Banjo brought up is that some rods were built with a softer "wet-fly" tip as well as a faster tip for dry fly casting's
different style(more and faster false casting to dry the fly between presentations). As agate tips are inherently heavier it seems likely that the use of them
to signify the wet fly tip would also contribute to slowing the tip down a tad. That being said, by the 1920s the dry fly bandwagon was rolling strong and my
guess is that, at least on the single taper trade rods, the combo tip pairs were more a marketing ploy than anything else. All either a crusty old school
curmudgeon or a modern man flyfisher had to do was replace one tip with whatever style he knew in his heart to be "The Best".
 And close inspection of my Tryon's "agate" makes me think
"Garnix", the glass insert that was common on mid to lower end rods.
Ken |
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SWhitman |
#7 | |||
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Posts: 375 10/26/2008 08:43 |
I recently purchased a Granger with an agate tip and a perfection tip that I believe is original and have had the occasion to see a circa 24-25 catalog that
states " Tungsten steel butt guides, line guides and tip tops are furnished as regular equipment. but agate can be supplied on special order, if
desired" The tapers on the Granger seem to be the same and I was surprised at how attractive the agate tip was. Most agate tip tops I've seen appear
bulky and out of place, but this one is very small and looks very nice.
Scott |
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Seabowisha Salmo T |
#8 | |||
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Posts: 96 10/26/2008 11:55 |
NB
agreeing with Scott, Samuel Camp, "Fishing Kits", London 1909/1910 states "As an aid to casting and for the purpose of saving line-wear it is a good plan to have the rod fitted with an agate hand-guide and agate 'TOP'. If the rod is thus fitted German silver will do for the rest of the guides. Agates cost from $0.75 to $1.00 each." other sources have indicated the tip with the agate top was intended for fly fishing with silk line and the second tip was for "rough" fishing. regards, jim winfree |
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ayres654 |
#9 | |||
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Posts: 65 10/26/2008 22:08 |
This doesn't clear anything up,but I have a Manitou with a Landman style reel seat,which would put in the proper time frame,that has two agate,or
agatine(I don't know one from the other) tip tops.Both have quality bezels.One matches the stripper(sort of orange);the other is traditional red.Both tips
work the same.Although the rod is 9 1/2' I consider it It as light as my 9' Heddon #20-2 1/2f.
I also have an 81/2' Heddon trade rod,marked in very fine Heddon script--"M&H Special No.5/2F By Heddon".It has one agate and one perfection.(the agate insert is grooved and held in place with a wire loop).Both stripper & tip inserts are orange and to my limited feel both tips work the same. Both of these rods came to me with the above mentioned hardware,so I am guessing all is original. I don't know about function,or if the fish cares,but they sure are pretty. Bill H |
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jeffkn1 |
#10 | |||
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Posts: 1713 11/01/2008 07:38 |
As of the 1940 Montague catalog, Manitous had agate tips as standard issue. Going down from there on the price list you'd find first a combo of one
agate/one Perfection, then agatine/steel, and finally two steel tiptops on the lowest price models. As far as I know, tips were always the same taper on
Montague and there was no explanation in the catalog for the tiptop choices. Their trade rods were the same, as far as I can tell.
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SnooKen |
#11 | |||
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Posts: 740 11/01/2008 10:54 |
So has anybody here found anything in print, either literature or catalog, offering a rationale for the practice on on 2 tip rods with identical tapers?
Ken |
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