Now, this is just my opinion, so take it as offered. I've divested myself of all the old cane I used to fish, except for an Orvis that is by and large one
of my favorite rods and bullet proof, to boot. The reason is partly because I got tired of maintaining them and locating original parts to replace anything
that needed it and the only ones I could afford just didn't cut the mustard in the taper department. Now, I just fish the new rods, new tapers that I have
(new tapers because I've learned that unless you use the exact glue, close to same density cane and same taper irregularities, forget getting an exact
copy) and I don't have to worry about messing up a masterpiece or losing a bunch of money when I decide to divest myself of the old cane. Fact is, I never
made any money off old cane, just lost because I always wound up with more in the rods when I fixed them up than I got when I resold. So, hats off to you gents
that can afford the expensive stuff, I'll just enjoy my new stuff and fish the H@ll out of it.
This forum began as Clark's Classic Bamboo Rod Forum, founded by Clark Davis for all who share a passion for classic rods. The forum is now owned by Whitefish Press aka Dr. Todd Larson - banjo.
For those who don't use English as their primary language we now have a translator for your language of choice hosted by Google.
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Old vs. New
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 Canewrap |
Old vs. New |
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Posts: 932 01/04/2009 03:26 |
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Bamboo Adict |
#1 | |||
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Posts: 174 01/04/2009 09:42 |
Canewrap, I have to agree with you, mostly because I can afford new makers rods and where I live I can put 300+ on the rods I have. As for Horsesho, I know the
the history of all the rods, I can remember almost all the fish they caught (although now that is getting harder) and as for the aroma of the 50 year old rods
some are getting close to that so I guess I have to agree with you too. Like Jerry Foster says "There just another fishing pole" ( I guess I agree
with all of you) I don't thing at my age I am suppose to agree so much, I am suppose to start arguing. Oh well I will hang around with Jerry, and Robert
more and get the hang of it.
David
Last Edited By: Bamboo Adict 01/04/2009 09:45.
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 quashnet |
#2 | |||
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Posts: 2351 01/04/2009 10:51 Moderatus Muscae |
There wouldn't be any classic rods today had not there been clients fifty to a hundred years ago who, like Canewrap, decided to buy new rods and fish new
tapers. A well-chosen new rod, fished well and enjoyed often, is a classic in the making.
Quashnet's Paul H. Young Rod Database has photos and descriptions of over
410 PHY Co. rods, plus catalogs, accessories, etc. Thank you to all
who continue to send me PHY rod photos and info.
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cwood |
#3 | |||
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Posts: 475 01/04/2009 11:00 |
It is worth having a few of each. I love my new rods and fish them most, but for the very reasons Horseshoe described I love to fish vintage cane now and
again. I hope to add many years of history to a couple new rods I own, and plan to hand them down so my grandkids will fish their "vintage" rods one
day.
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mtn |
re old verses new | #4 | ||
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Posts: 421 01/04/2009 11:52 |
A good point Canewrap and I agree. It gets to a point when I chase after an old rod that the price no longer makes sence and why not just get a new rod. I am
a fisherman first, I still have a soft spot for old rods and probably always will. It always seems too that there will alway be some work involved in the
purchase of a classic rod even when you see the proverbial word "mint" thrown around and "ready to fish" I guess I view things from a
differnt aspect, rarely have I bought a classic rod that didn't need something minor done to it.
Mike |
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Boo.fiberglassflyro... |
Old vs New | #5 | ||
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Posts: 63 01/04/2009 13:32 |
I agree with you Canewrap. The only bamboo rod I still own is an Orvis and what you say about them is true! I'd still like to buy a new rod from a
contemporary maker but I just haven't decided which one and the prices aren't coming down. But, I'm one who would rather put my own history on a
[new] rod. I don't want to think about who had their slimy hands on an old rod before me!
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philpsych |
#6 | |||
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Posts: 136 01/04/2009 13:45 Moderator |
Canewrap, you make some good points. Although I've fly fished since 1985, when I was 12, it's only the last 2 seasons I've fished bamboo almost
exclusively. I want to cast the classic rods myself, since I agree that there's more to those tapers than dialing in a planing form. On the other hand, my
old rods do have little issues now and then, which is doubly bad since I live in Canada, and shipping to the US is expensive. That's life. I've really
enjoyed fishing the originals, such as my Leonard prefire Hunt 50, Leonard prefire 50 1/2, and WM Granger Special 8642, all fine rods. New to me this season is
a WM Granger Special 8040, which I'm hoping will be THE cosmic 8' #5, and the same rod in either 9050 or 9053 format, purchased for a song on the site
whose name we do not speak! Mark
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zenflyfisher |
Old Vs New | #7 | ||
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Posts: 20 01/04/2009 16:22 |
Being a builder and collector I love them all even the clunky old blue collar rods such as Montague and HI. Coming from blue collar grassroots these have
special meaning to me. These were the rod my Pops, Grandpa and Uncles toted around. As well as their Mossberg, Stevens and Model 12 shotguns.
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slate river |
#8 | |||
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Posts: 29 01/04/2009 22:30 |
I agree with Horsesho and Chris as I also like to fish my old rods along with the rods I have by modern makers. The old rods keep me connected with the past
given the sense of history they have which personally I feel is important in keeping everything about this sport alive and well. I will fish one of the
classics when I want to remember what it was like to fish with my Dad or Mr. Corrigan who was one of my mentors when I was a kid. I will fish one of my new
rods whenever the spirit moves me or maybe the anticipated conditions of the day dictate such a rod. But, I will say that nothing puts a bigger smile on my
face then catching a nice big brown or wild rainbow or cutthroat on my old Model 20 or 8040 or a little wild brookie on my Leonard. Obviously, this question
has no right or wrong answer as it simply amounts to one's personal preference. It hard to argue against the quality of materials and construction of the
modern maker versus the makers of days gone by. However , but for the makers of the past and their knowledge and trial and error methods past down I find it
hard to believe the modern maker would exist today at their current extremely high level of proficiency. I love these types of posts...Granger vs. Heddon;
Garrison vs. Payne; Old vs. New etc. Its a great way to pass away the winter months and as a relatively new member to this Forum I would like to thank
everyone for their thoughtful and insightful comments. Everyday I am on this Forum I just keep learning more and more. Thanks guys and keep it coming.
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OnlyTrout |
#9 | |||
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Posts: 25 01/06/2009 19:39 |
Yes - I tend to agree Canewrap. Although I would like to have at least one old rod to have that connection to yesteryear (the rod would have to be a decent caster though), it is exciting today to have one of the new rods made by a "current" rodmaker who has his own ideas about tapers. The rods are made so well now that you can have years of worry-free usage and enjoyment - at a very decent price. |
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Flyman615 |
Old vs. New | #10 | ||
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Posts: 3029 01/06/2009 21:14 |
A debate really not worth having (again), IMO. I own, fish and enjoy old and new bamboo rods. Both have their virtues, and yes, drawbacks--both historical and
structural.
I say, buy and fish what you like. But don't expect everyone to agree with your particular preferences. After all, that's what makes horse races--and this Forum--interesting. Just fish it--bamboo, that is! Regards, Flyman 
Last Edited By: Flyman615 01/06/2009 22:12.
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tedgolden |
#11 | |||
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Posts: 2672 01/07/2009 00:51 Moderator |
I am glad this came up again as I have changed my thinking. I often do this in other matters: Ex-wives, the stock market, careers, dog breeds come to mind.
There are many more things on which I have changed convictions.
At the moment I prefer rods made after 1970 but before 2000. It seems the older I get, the younger rods look better. All my rods, old and young, cast much better than I do. I try not to take all this too seriously. Last spring I had a serious fling with a Model 65 pre-war Leonard. My younger rods didn't seem to mind. I hope to visit this question again next year when I expect to revert to Goodwin Grangers and 50's Paynes. I am not finding a pattern here. |
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Soft Hackle |
#12 | |||
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Posts: 1179 01/07/2009 08:11 |
Of my 12 rods, 6 are Heddons and 6 are from current makers. The new rods are based on tapers by Thomas, Leonard , Payne, Heddon & Edwards. I am like Ted,
going back and forth. I like them all but there is something about the Heddon look and feel , especially the Featherweights that I love. Does a Simroe era
Leonard 39 fall into " Old" or " new". I guess a rod made in the 60's by a maker who is still producing rods must be new, yet very
"classic".
Last Edited By: Soft Hackle 01/07/2009 19:48.
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gofish60 |
#13 | |||
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Posts: 1902 01/07/2009 18:46 Registered User |
I fish my Schroeder rods the most, primarily because if I break one, I can get it put back into new condition pretty quickly. However, I still do love to fish
the old Paynes and Leonards, and the Payne 196 and 198 and Leonard 48 get a lot of use also.
If I want to smell something old, I just go fishing with one of my friends (right, Boobie), who for the most part, are much older and smell a lot worse than even the classic rods. gofish |
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joaniebo |
#14 | |||
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Posts: 1741 01/07/2009 18:50 |
Now, what's the old saying ????? ... something like, "Every dog smells his own." ... 'nuff said about the "elderly gentleman" (?).
With Much (dis) Respect BHBoobie PS - "Friends" .. . you gotta be kiddin'. We just take him outta da house, so his wife can get some rest (and breath of fresh air!) |
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bulldog1935 |
#15 | |||
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Posts: 6597 01/07/2009 19:04 Bulldog1935 |
My choice for cane is 8' to 8-1/2' for fishing trout in my tailwater. Vintage rods under $400 are great for me; although I did spring for an EX
original condition 30s FE Thomas Special which I can't put down this winter. I have one new 8' cane rod, which is a joy, but is also an old Thomas
taper.
My shorter rods are mostly for upriver in the TX hill country for endemic bass through summer and fall, where old glass 6-wts. are perfect.
the rods are never obsolete - the marketing is.
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czkid |
Yes........But??? | #16 | ||
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Posts: 3817 01/07/2009 19:04 Moderator |
An interesting topic, and there are portions of it I would agree with... but I've also had problems with modern maker's rods as well. Many of the
older rods had very unique tapers, and if there is one thing that I've come to understand with bamboo rods it's that if you cast it, and you like it,
then buy THAT rod. Duplicating the feel of a rod is a very difficult thing to do... and the taper isn't the whole story as Canewrap so
correctly states. If you don't know the total "DNA" of a rod, you're not going to duplicate the "feel".
Many of the modern makers don't even make some of the longer rods... not only because they don't sell that many, but because they don't "fit" some of the modern tools. Mike Brooks, God Bless the man, volunteered to make me an extra tip for my 9ft PHY... only to figure out how much trouble it was to make a 4'6" long tip!!! I hear all the weeping and wailing about long rods... but thank you very much, I dearly love my 8'6" - 10' rods. I wonder just how much a modern maker would want to duplicate my Model 25 Leonard (9'6", 7+wt)??? Now I don't fish it that much, but when I need that rod, I don't need something shorter. There is a fine balance here. If we're going to go out and buy the "bargain basement" rod and hope it's going to work... then maybe we should expect some problems. Been there, done that! But if I buy an older rod, from a known source, and that rod has been well treated... I may spend a few extra bucks on that given rod... but I'll bet I have fewer problems in the long run. That's why folks like Jim Bresko are so well thought of.... I have absolutely no problems with modern makers, I count many as personal friends, and I own a "few" of their rods... and love them!!! But by in large, I am going to cast anything I plan on buying before I ever reach for my wallet!!! Great topic. Ralph |
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sharps4590 |
#17 | |||
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Posts: 76 01/07/2009 21:51 |
Oh my goodness. Cane, what a potential can of worms you have opened. I applaud you and everyone else in their replys and their civility.
Cane, as with you, this is my opinion. No one has really mentioned the plain and simple romance of fishing vintage rods. Are the rods by modern makers better? Probably without a doubt. The only experience I have is a 1978 Orvis, Madison Far & Fine. Are they a 1920's era South Bend, (not to mention the rods by the great and famous builders!), nope, without a doubt....but I have no experience with a Leonard, (my wifes maiden name, btw), Payne, Garrison, Phillipson or any others. Given the depths of my pockets I probably never will enjoy those experiences. However, I'm not selling my half dozen rods of bamboo. Nor am I selling my half dozen or so rods of graphite or fibreglass. I like them all, they're paid for, and even tho some don't see any use these days I don't want to part with them. Having said that, nearly all my fishing these days is with vintage bamboo. Because I like it. I also like hunting with flintlocks and bowhunting with either a longbow or vintage recurve. I simply enjoy my outdoor sports while using "old stuff". I don't own a compound bow and never will and most of my hunting these days is with flintlocks. I still have my modern rifles and handguns and won't part with them even tho they see little or no use. But, they are there if I want to use them!!!! I don't blame you in the least for selling out. I understand it completely. What I don't understand, and most on this board probably don't either, is why those of us who choose to use "old stuff" are looked at as either elitists or snobs of some sort. Strange world, ain't it. Vic |
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OnlyTrout |
#18 | |||
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Posts: 27 01/08/2009 12:00 |
I really like these discussions because they cause me to think about different viewpoints. Sharps4590, not sure others look at fishers of old cane as snobs
but possibly more of envy. I sure would like to be able to afford some of the old classics and have that conection to the past but the prices are often too
high for me. The few older rods I have owned were all very well made and cast beautifully. Czkid made some really good points regarding the capability of
modern rodmakers and their ability (or inability) to exactly duplicate the old tapers. On a related point, within the last year I had to send a newly
purchased rod back to a modern maker due to the guides not being straight and the tips were not entirely straight either. So IMO you do have to be careful
with "some" of the newer makers.
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philpsych |
#19 | |||
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Posts: 140 01/08/2009 13:03 Moderator |
Terrific topic! Czkid, I agree that each rod is an individual. Out of curiosity, does anyone have any thoughts about what else the DNA consists of, besides the
taper? Mark
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rodzilla |
#20 | |||
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Posts: 119 01/08/2009 13:41 |
thoughts about what else the DNA consists of, besides the taper?
Heat treatment/tempering would be a variable. |
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- Members Corner
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