Is using a snake instead of a stripper a good idea on a short, light, fly rod?

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gooseberryrods	Is using a snake instead of a stripper a good idea on a short, light, fly rod?		Lead	[-]
Posts: 573 01/08/2009 00:36	Tags : None I am curious if anyone else pondered over this? I believe conventional stripping guides add unwanted stiffness and weight compared to conventional snakes, which are flexible and a mere fraction of the weight. An 8 mm mildrum stripper weighs in at about 1.6 grams and a size 3 recoil snake does not even register a measurable weight on my digital scale. Obviously one would choose a conventional stripping guide on a bigger rod where casting a longer line is desirable but on a short rod where a long cast might be 30', I am not so convinced. I am interested to hear if anyone has experimented with the two different guide types on the same rod. Also, wouldn't a relatively inflexible stripping guide add a dead spot in the rod not unlike a ferrule? Still scratching my head over this wonderful craft of ours... gooseberry Last Edited By: gooseberryrods 01/08/2009 00:58. Edited 1 time.
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quashnet		#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2363 01/08/2009 02:20 Moderatus Muscae	At least a couple of Paul H. Young Midge rods listed in old "Classic Rods & Tackle" catalogs by Martin J. Keane were described as built with a snake guide in place of a stripping guide. Keane said that Young's earliest Midges were built with snakes, but Young later used stripping guides. I have not yet seen one of these Midges, and can't verify the story. Quashnet's Paul H. Young Rod Database has photos and descriptions of over 410 PHY Co. rods, plus catalogs, accessories, etc. Thank you to all who continue to send me PHY rod photos and info.
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AJ Bamboo		#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 758 01/08/2009 03:10	quite a few rods were built this way over the years. a large number of them are listed as "replaced with a standard strip guide"
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thousandstar		#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 127 01/08/2009 07:58	If I'm not mistaken the Hardy banty rods were made with snake in place of stripper guides.
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bubba01		#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 96 01/08/2009 09:03	I had a tiny Orvis Battenkill that had no stripper. It was all original in excellent condition, made in the early 50's. Also right now I'm working on a 2wt. Leonard that has no stripper. The owner of the Leonard wants to fish it so we are going to change to an agate stripper. Billy
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Ben Kann	snake vs. stripper	#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 153 01/08/2009 10:00	I'm not a rod maker, but it seems to me that the first guide is (because of the hand to line angle) where most of the friction and line wear happens. It may only be short casts, but I'd be willing to bet there'll be a LOT of them. A 1.6 gram trade-off sounds like a good idea to me. Ben
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MFRS		#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 173 01/08/2009 11:36	Personally, the snake guide is fed by the previous guide, even incase of the tipit guide. If you had a snake at the stripper location the line would be constantly being pulled through the "V". It would not be as critical on midge rods but dry-fly fishing would be just nasty on the line as it was constantly being falsed cast. The line coming into the stripper, I feel, need to be circular to eliminate pinch points that would be created by the very design of the snake guide.
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thousandstar		#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 128 01/08/2009 11:42	I enjoy short one piece rods and have made quite a few. I personally use a light weight stripper guide on all my rods, I am much more concerned with the weight of the snake guides on the rest of the rod. It is my thinking that the weight will be much more noticeable and have an adverse effect on feel and action when the weight is towards the tip of the rod.
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rlnunleycom		#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 427 01/08/2009 11:44	The older Leonard Catskills that I've seen were made with snakes instead of strippers. You can't argue with the way they perform. R.L. Nunley Rodmaker
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rodzilla		#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 120 01/08/2009 14:09	older Leonard Catskills....... were made with snakes And right handed ones at that! They almost "cast themselves." Slower than the Second Coming, however.
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Zenkoanhead		#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1414 01/08/2009 14:38	Easy solution. Use a titanium single foot ceramic guide. Not only do they look sharp, but there is less of a deadspot. The single foots tend to stand taller than a comparable stripper and so the angle off the reel is not as great. I am not obsessive about weight so often use a gold cermet or something similar in looks. A size 10 ceramic matches well with a size 2 or 3 snake. Don
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FlymanDan		#11	[url]	[-]
Posts: 184 01/08/2009 15:38	My H-I Tonka Prince has a snake as the first guide, but I am going to replace it after two years of use because I feel it makes a difference comparing it to my other rods.
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quadrate	Snake Stripper	#12	[url]	[-]
Posts: 24 01/09/2009 03:04	Paul Young used the snake stripper on Midges and some Perfectionists that had the aluminum ferrules. I guess he was really concerned about that minor amount of weight. The Leonard Catskill series from the Maxwell era had a pinched snake as the stripper. I have made some rods with a snake stripper and I must say that they do look a little different but that from a fishing standpoint they may be better than a stripping guide on 5 wt. rods and under. I would use a stainless or chrome guide to reduce the wear. I used a blued guide once and it wore out prematurely. When fishing with a snake stripper the rod shoots line a lot better. There is a lot less restriction on a line with the snake guide. Tim Zietak
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oldfishbrain		#13	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1263 01/09/2009 16:23	Like everybody else I have seen them with either. I think the original 1wt Catskills from Leonard had a snake as a stripper. I have a Kusse 6ft Baby catskill 1wt and it seems Ron stayed with the traditional snake stripper. On the other hand I have a couple of early post fire 1wt Catskills of close serial numbers (309 and 386) and they both have small regular (non agate) strippers. #386 is the lightest Leonard I have handled. It is 6ft, weighs 1.4 oz on my laboratory scale, sports a 7/64" stepdown ferrule and handles a 1wt DT silk or a 1wt QT I (WF) line in a magical way. I have made the regular 6ft 1wt Baby catskill (8/64" ferrule) taper both ways: and, in my hands at least, I do not see any differences in the casting. Also the weight difference is minimal (1.76 oz for the snake versus 1.87 oz for the agate). Maker of light line nodeless bamboo fly rods avardanis@sympatico.ca
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