i experimented extensively when designing the hollow rods and i found that, for me, there was a considerable difference in results obtained according to the
method used.
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Hollowbuilt versus solid built rods
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 AJ Bamboo |
#21 | |||
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Posts: 762 01/12/2009 03:20 |
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oysterbamboo |
#22 | |||
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Posts: 269 01/13/2009 13:11 |
bobbeegee,
If you're going to be in Charlotte in a couple weeks, come by my booth. I'll have a rack of solid rods and ONE rod which is hollowed all of the way to the tip top. I won't tell you which one, and we can play "guess that rod construction", and settle the question once and for all. Bill O. www.oysterbamboo.com |
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Boonut |
#23 | |||
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Posts: 396 01/13/2009 18:03 |
I'm not sure how much a HB rod changes the overall weight, but it seems it would change the swing weight. You should be able to feel that?
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bobbeegee |
#24 | |||
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Posts: 2273 01/13/2009 18:50 |
oysterbamboo wrote:Thanks Bill. I may make it to Charlotte if my work schedule will allow. If so, I'll definitely stop by. Bob Go Heels!!! |
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David Dornblaser |
#25 | |||
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Posts: 240 01/13/2009 19:10 |
While being able to pick out HB rods amongst solid rods would be a fun exercise, I was hoping that this thread would provide insight on how hollow building
changes the characteristics of rods & taper? I was hoping that some of the rod makers could say what the general characteristics of hollow building are as
they compare some of their rods made both hollow and solid. There are a number of current builders who are hollow building and knowing their reasons for doing
so would be informative.
- David www.UpperMidwestFlyFishing.com - fly fishing in the Upper Midwest. Spring Creeks to Smallies to Steelhead. |
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AJ Bamboo |
#26 | |||
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Posts: 766 01/14/2009 03:58 |
#1 better performance, not graphite like better performance but superior performance while retaining what we all love about bamboo. #2 lighter weight. the
effect increases with the length/line weight of the rod while #1 is constant.
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Booman2 |
#27 | |||
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Posts: 538 01/15/2009 01:03 |
I am no expert, and my casting hand gets weird twitches now. However, when I said I couldn't tell the difference for sure, I should have expanded to say
that I've owned many Howells rods, some of which were solid and some hollow. Gary constantly tweaked his tapers, once changed glue, varied heat treatment
and varied other things. He only built slow and medium action rods, so he didn't hollow-build for the purpose of making a rod faster. I have owned several
pairs of his rods of identical size/weight, but due to possible small changes in taper or other factors, I can't tell with his rods. If A.J. or another
excellent builder would provide 2 identical models, the only difference being hollow v. solid, the difference would be obvious. Wayne Maca has taken hollow
building to outer space and many will say that his lightest and fastest bamboo rods are just that: the lightest and the fastest.
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canerodscom |
#28 | |||
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Posts: 1937 01/15/2009 10:41 Bamboo preacher |
Booman2,
I have identical 7' 6" five weights in the rack in front of me, one solid, one hollow. If you happen to pass by, we'll go to the pond and cast both. I think you'll notice a definite difference. For what it's worth, one weighs about 3/10 ounce less than the other. Harry
Harry Boyd
maker@canerods.com http://www.canerods.com http://www.canerods.blogspot.com |
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thegubster |
#29 | |||
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Posts: 1518 01/15/2009 13:47 |
oysterbamboo wrote: Man, would I like to do that too. Just for fun. I think it would be an educational opportunity to answer some questions (not at all pressing) that I have too. I have a few hollowbuilts in my quiver that I like very much and also a few solids. I like both types, each for what it will do and how it feels. I have my favorites on Tuesday that differ from my favorites on Wednesday. Even I can't that one out. And I like that... Jeremy. |
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E C Powell |
#30 | |||
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Posts: 23 01/16/2009 00:26 |
Hi All There are way too many variables to this question. But the simple fact is the more weight that is removed from a rod the transfer of energy will be better. Meaning instead of the rod casting its self it will be casting the line. Tight lines and clear waters Eugene C Powell |
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AJ Bamboo |
#31 | |||
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Posts: 769 01/16/2009 02:23 |
44 words and spot on EC.
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Boonut |
#32 | |||
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Posts: 401 01/16/2009 11:23 |
Correct me if i'm wrong here. Isn't one of the features of bamboo the weight of the rod that gives a smooth cast and feels like the rod is casting
itself? If we continue to make bamboo lighter and crisper. Aren't we making them feel too much like graphite?
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bobbeegee |
#33 | |||
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Posts: 2286 01/16/2009 23:04 |
PYochim wrote: Go Heels!!! |
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Soft Hackle |
#34 | |||
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Posts: 1184 01/16/2009 23:36 |
The HB methods have been around since the 1940's and I can't help wonder why makers such as Payne, Dickerson, Young, Leonard, T &T, Aroner, Taylor,
Bradford, Carpenter, and others did not gravitate to it. The amount of weight removed as mentioned by Harry is seemingly of little consequence, perhaps the
weight of a watch on rods under 8'. In the 7' or 7'6" and even 8' I can't imagine the weight to be of any noticeable difference. I
have owned one HB rod and it was a nice rod on an E.C. Powell taper but I didn't find it a better performer than my solid rods in any way , just didn't
seem that different. It seems that Jim Payne or Garrison, perhaps Gillum , would have recognized any superiority in action, especially Garrison , who was very
much an engineer in his approach to the craft, as A.J. is also said to be as well. Interesting debate, and it is very possible that I am not a sophisticated
enough of a caster to appreciate the difference.
Last Edited By: Soft Hackle 01/16/2009 23:55.
Edited 3 times.
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David Dornblaser |
#35 | |||
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Posts: 242 01/16/2009 23:41 |
Guys, I don't think that the advantages to hollow building is only about weight. HB rods, to me, are crisper and livelier. I think that the real advantage
is in the damping effect it has.
- David www.UpperMidwestFlyFishing.com - fly fishing in the Upper Midwest. Spring Creeks to Smallies to Steelhead. |
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bobbeegee |
#36 | |||
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Posts: 2290 01/16/2009 23:49 |
David,
That's all well and good, and if that little bit of crispier and livelier is going to help you catch more fish, or somehow not tire you more when fishing an 8 1/2' rod, then have at it. Really, I'm not trying to be argumentative, I just do not see any advantage in fishing a shorter HB rod v/s a fine solid built. bobbyg Go Heels!!! |
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seattlesetters |
#37 | |||
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Posts: 535 01/16/2009 23:53 |
Soft Hackle wrote:I hate to say it, but perhaps Payne, Dickerson, Leonard, T&T and others just weren't as "cutting edge" as Powell, the folks at Winston SF (Stoner), and others working in the West Coast "hollow-building" paradigm. I prefer hollow-built rods, and folks in the forefront like AJ, Per, Mario, Howells, Reams, Peterson, Merrick, Raine, Brackett, Kustich, Johnson, Hidy, Spittler, Boyd, Karstetter, Carlin and Maca just might be better bamboo rod designers and builders than the Old Masters. They really is no shame or heresy in that statement. Henry Ford, while certainly deserving credit for the modern production line, never managed to produce a Porsche 911, after all. And the Old masters were essentially mass-production houses, which probably wouldn't want to spend the extra hours of hand labor required for hollow-building.
Last Edited By: seattlesetters 01/17/2009 11:47.
Edited 2 times.
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David Dornblaser |
#38 | |||
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Posts: 243 01/16/2009 23:59 |
bobbeegee wrote: Who's talking about shorter HB rods? Try a fine hollow built, many of today's best rod makers are hollow building their rods. - David www.UpperMidwestFlyFishing.com - fly fishing in the Upper Midwest. Spring Creeks to Smallies to Steelhead. |
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bobbeegee |
#39 | |||
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Posts: 2291 01/17/2009 00:07 |
Well David, excuse me, if you are only talking about longer rods, then we are in agreement!
If I feel the need to fish a longer rod, other than those I own, I might consider a hollow built. bobbyg Go Heels!!!
Last Edited By: bobbeegee 01/17/2009 00:12.
Edited 1 time.
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creakycane |
#40 | |||
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Posts: 2017 01/17/2009 00:17 |
bobbyg - The advantage will be in damping in the larger rod - that 8 1/2' 5 wt that feels a bit sloppy solid ----- hollowbuilt will generally damp better
and feel more controlled in the hand, a touch like a good graphite rod, but hopefully retaining the bamboo feel.
Its been said many times, but the whole hollowbuilding effort seems to be alot more appropriate pre-graphite and glass. My feeling is that most of the larger hollowbuilt cane rods made today are made with the intention of heading toward the action of a good graphite rod (hopefully a good one), even if it's in the subconscious. The look of cane, the finish of cane, the romance associated with cane - but, more the feel of graphite. And, hopefully, the rod does not feel like a broomstick with a fine tip attached. I challenge anyone casting a 8 1/2' 5 or 6 wt cane rod by ANY maker to pick up, for example, a T & T Paradigm in the same size, cast it, and see what kind of conclusion you will arrive at in your own mind........ Also, what about the issues of durability of these hollow rods? I know, there are stories of oodles of Winston 8 wts taking 5000 50 lb salmon - but, what about long term durability of long 4 weights that are cored and the wetting area of the epoxy is pretty small? I have been told by more than a few rodsmakers that they would avoid hollowbuilts for just that reason and the report having seen more sets in these type of rods over the years than are advertised..... I do take these comments with the same grain of salt I take of hollowbuilt makers singing the praises of hollowbuilts (since these 2 gents who essentially said this to me have only toyed with hollowbuilding and commercially make only solid rods), but it does make one think about what that over 8' 4 wt will be like in 20 years if it is actually used quite a bit?
Last Edited By: creakycane 01/17/2009 10:59.
Edited 2 times.
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