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 bobbeegee |
Montague Rods....Best Fishable rod today? |
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Posts: 2490 03/14/2009 19:46 |
I would say my post title says it all.
Opinions? Bob I would add this. The best rod, regardless of length, weight, etc. I also have no experience with these rods as I've never owned one or wanted to. Maybe I should? Go Heels!!!
Last Edited By: bobbeegee 03/14/2009 20:50.
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sharps4590 |
#1 | |||
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Posts: 112 03/14/2009 20:45 |
I just wish I had the experience with Montague rods to offer an opinion. From what I own and have fished I'm going to stay with the South Bend 323
Vic |
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nativebrownie |
#2 | |||
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Posts: 689 03/15/2009 02:12 |
Light Line - I'll go with a Light Trout Fishkill , 7.5 2/2 - an honest 3-4 weight and beautiful to boot - very nice wood spacer (pre WW II model), too...
 
Heavier - Medium Trout Red Wing - 8.5/3/2 - a sturdy 6 weight - ferrules are comparable to a 2f Heddon - again the flaming and wraps are beautiful, also... And not much cash will pass between hands for these two fine rods... Honorable Mention to a Light trout Manitou, 9/3/2 - 3-4-5 weight ( actually could do the work of both of the above if needed) - wonderful ferrules and gorgeous cane and wraps... NB
Last Edited By: nativebrownie 03/16/2009 08:29.
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Whitefish Press |
#3 | |||
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Posts: 239 03/15/2009 16:49 Sic transit piscatoria Clark's |
I'm surprised this topic hasn't generated more responses, as many of the affordable cane fanatics (like myself) have definite opinions. I think you
can't go wrong with a nice higher-end Monty. Lots available, reasonable price, reasonable handling. What's not to like? South Bend is also a good
choice, and I like the Comfo Grip models, but I've also seen some people who are dedicated to their H&I Tonka Queens, another good value for the
dollar. I've only cast one so I don't have great experience with them.
-- Dr. Todd |
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hopkintoncane |
#4 | |||
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Posts: 353 03/15/2009 17:13 |
Really funny, I was out casting the 8.5's today, and had some impressions that other blue collar fanatics might find interesting, I picked up a Flipline a
few weeks ago and compared to the Redwing and the Manitou I have of the same length, the Flipline is a DT4 and could very well be thought of as a wet fly
action, need to be careful on the speed of the forward stroke, or the dreaded tailing loop developes in short order, significantly finer taper than the other
two with one-ferrule size smaller on both ferrule sets, the Manitou is only slightly faster and firmly in the 5 WF range, I would have thought with the salmon
heritage of the Manitous a 6 would work but the blond cane seems to weaken with the 6 WF peach and the taper can't keep the line up without very careful
timing and a little hauling to boost line speed, the Redwing is a completely different story, with a WF 5 peach its a medium-fast dry fly action, I'm sure
the manner in which montague flamed (or I have read "treated") the cane, together with the taper has a lot to do with this, more cane in the mid and
tip sections makes it faster without being tip heavy, and with a WF 6 peach, the rod really loads in close and could very well be the perfect zone for the
taper, or coarse, in the beautiful bright sun today in the northeast, the colorful wraps all look beautiful, got to love the monty wrap colors!!! They say
spring and bright brookies to me.....question for nativebrownie, whats the number and placement of guides on the lightweight Fishkill, mines a typical 5, and I
was surprised to find a stripper on the butt and only 3 on the tips, less guides than the lower grade Rapidan 7.5??? Todd
Last Edited By: hopkintoncane 03/15/2009 17:16.
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Slate Drake 9 |
#5 | |||
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Posts: 76 03/15/2009 19:16 |
I have a 9' Redwing medium trout I really like. I've played with a few Manitous and haven't found them to be bad, but not as nice as the Redwing.
I really like the flaming and red and yellow wraps. Mine is a bit tip heavy, but with the properly weighted Medalist it feels just right. I've fished
mine with a WF 5 and DT 6 and like the 6 the best. For the price, I don't think it can be beat for a long, big water rod. If I could find an 8 footer (I
don't think they made them) I would probably fall in love.
Fishing with bait is like swearing in church.
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nativebrownie |
#6 | |||
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Posts: 690 03/15/2009 19:31 |
hopkintoncane,
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freestoner |
#7 | |||
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Posts: 605 03/15/2009 20:31 |
The early Chubb Montagues, especially the Varneys, are very well made. The action tends to be pretty limber. They're the kind of rods you don't cast
like a gust of wind- more like a gentle breeze.
If you find a light-line Chubb Montague from the intermediate windings era with plenty of guides, hand-welted ferrules, and a rod seat that's better grade than a stamped sheet- it's probably a nice rod. Especially if it's 8.5' or less- although even the ones up to 9.5' can often be used with #3 or #4 line. Just don't look for real crisp dry fly action out of them. A long time ago, I was on a thread talking about the LeTort, and someone mentioned seeing somebody fishing that stream with a long, limber 9' rod, a level G silk line, and a single tiny wet fly. The more I think about it, the more that makes sense as a way to defeat all those cross-currents and weedbeds and pull a trout or two out of there, when nothing much is happening up top (which is often.) Just lazily looping a lightish color #20 soft hackle out there, and guiding it along with the rod tip and an occasional line mend...drifting and swinging it, perhaps without the need for a super long leader, maybe just a fine tippet at the end of a small-diameter level fly line. "A Modern Wet-Fly Code", lol. (Funny, 2000 miles away, and I still find myself plotting strategy for Eastern limestone streams...)
Last Edited By: freestoner 03/15/2009 20:45.
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nativebrownie |
#8 | |||
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Posts: 691 03/15/2009 21:45 |
Free,
Yes, makes sense, a good way to spend time on the Letort or any water... Saw a very similar scene with a veteran and a 9.5 cane rod, roll casting his way up the banks of the another famous eastern limestoner - He was really in his element... Talked later and he carried two flies - a small cork bettle and a #18 sparse soft hackle... Reminds me of Hewitt's technique on his Neversink waters in midsummer. Described as long and limber 8-8.5 rods- thin silk- and real sparse and small wets. Worked then... That light line Manitou fits that profile - 9/3/2 with 17/64 butt guide and 10/64 tip guide. NB |
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freestoner |
#9 | |||
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Posts: 606 03/15/2009 22:13 |
That just really makes sense to me, as a way to learn a tough limestone stream like the LeTort. Give yourself two flies, and concentrate on presentation for
the rest of it.
Presentation, presentation, presentation....write it 200 times. Because if you can figure out how to lay down line without all those darting shadows telling you you've just done something wrong, you have a hope of success. |
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Cane Head |
#10 | |||
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Posts: 2206 03/15/2009 22:50 |
Thanks for a refreshing discussion concerning the type of rods this website was originally geared towards.
Cane |
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TheMontyMan |
Best Fishable Monty... | #11 | ||
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Posts: 6 03/15/2009 23:19 |
Good topic!! I think a lot of people tend to shy away from Montague rods because of their long-standing reputation for low-end, production-quality
craftsmanship. As many folks have realized, there are quite a few gems to be found in the Montague line, and their reputation and availability have kept the
prices down.
I've fished with quite a few Montys, and I keep coming back to the same two rods, a 1920's vintage 8'6" Red Wing Light Trout for smaller waters, and a 1930's or 40's vintage 8'6" Red Wing Medium Trout for bigger waters and lake fishing from a kayak or pontoon. The Light Trout throws a 3 wt. line nicely, and is a light 3 wt. by today's standards. The 8'6" Medium Trout casts a 5 wt. line very well, and could probably do just as well with a 6 wt. line. I pick different rods from my collection to fish with about half of the time, just to try them out for comparison. One of my favorite specialty rods is the 9' Bass Weight Fishkill that I use on lakes, where I want the most distance. This rod is a little heavier, but shoots line like a cannon. Here's the biggest challenge facing people when comparing high-end Montague rods - What most people don't realize is that many of Montague's production models were built in several different weights, lengths, configurations. For instance, the "standard" Red Wing model was built in at least 10 different ways (not counting the 7'6" 2-piece, 7'6" 3-piece, and Salmon Fly models). They were built in Light Trout, Medium Trout and Bass "weights", and 8', 8'6", 9', and 9'6" lengths. The Light, Medium, and Bass "weights" don't have any direct correlation to modern-day rod "weight" measurements (I'm working on that). Many, if not all, of the high-end rods were made with similar options. I've even seen a Rapidan marked as "Bass Weight". This wouldn't be such a problem if the rods were marked with the weight indication, but they're not. In most cases, the weight was marked on the tube label and/or the rod sock. Most of these labels have rubbed off, or were separated from the rod. The result is that it is difficult to tell the difference between the different sub-models (Light/Medium/Bass), so one guy's experience with a Red Wing could be totally different than another's, because the rod is not the same. I've been working with a few other folks to nail down the differences and similarities, in an effort to help the average angler/collector determine which sub-model they have. Just today Dean (lewis2dl) pointed out that one of his Light Trout Red Wings has 4 snake guides on the tips, while his Medium Trouts have 5 snakes on the tips. I checked 2 of my Light Trouts and they have only 4 snakes on the tips as well, and 2 of my Mediums have 5 snakes. He may have discovered one of the keys to tell the difference. I need to pull out the rest of my Red Wings for comparison. Eventually, I plan to build a modern rod weight conversion chart for the most popular models, as well as a taper database. Montague's effort to make just the right rod for every angler and every fishing situation has resulted in making it difficult for present-day collectors and anglers. TheMontyMan Check out my profile to see who I used to be... |
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nativebrownie |
#12 | |||
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Posts: 692 03/16/2009 08:28 |
Rex,
Canehead, Agreed, refreshing...
NB |
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cyangler |
Light Trout RedWing | #13 | ||
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Posts: 47 03/16/2009 13:05 |
I have an 8 1/2 foot RW marked Light Trout on the tube. Very nice rod with a DT 4. I also have a 7' 8" H-I Tonka Queen for 5 weight that I originally
thought would impress me more when lined up, as I had read several members say that they preferred it over the Monty, or at least that it was a faster rod
better suited to dry fly fishing than the RW.
They may have been comparing the Medium RW to the TQ and I may be comparing apples to oranges. Don't have enough comparison with other examples of the two models to judge by my humble experience, and in fairness to the H-I, the Monty is near mint. The Tonka Queen in my ownership, though still lovely in appearance, may have lost a bit of her original appeal. Both tips are original length, though one sags a bit. The other tip fishes nicely, but I think for average free stone applications, and here the 7' 8" length is better suited. Based on my limited stream-time with the Light Trout RedWing, it is a fine choice for limestone or comparable water requiring some finesse. Cy |
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Canewrap |
Re: Monty's | #14 | ||
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Posts: 87 03/16/2009 15:21 |
Well, learned something today. This thread explains the Rapidan I had some years back. It was a 7.5', 2-piece, 3/4wt that was a great rod. I've been
looking for another ever since, didn't realize what I had was a Light Trout model. Are you guys mostly finding the more desirable Montys on rod lists as I
can't say I've seen even one on the evilbay.
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TheMontyMan |
Common Monty Weights... | #15 | ||
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Posts: 9 03/16/2009 19:54 |
Canewrap,
Desirable is a relative term... I know lots of guys that love their Red Wing Medium Trout models as a great 6 wt. rod that can really throw a big bug, and still be handy for dry fly fishing. Most of the 7'6" Rapidan's I've seen are closer to a 5 wt., and I suspect they are Medium Trout models. I have talked to a couple other folks who had an nice 3/4 wt. model though, like yours. From what I've seen, most of the Red Wings floating around are Medium Trout models. I've been lucky enough to pick up a couple of Light Trouts by magnifying the posted pictures on my screen to actual size, and physically comparing them to the ones I have. There is a significant difference in cane size near the grip. I picked up a digital caliper last weekend, so I'm going to start measuring a few rods to get a more accurate reading. . . . Rex TheMontyMan |
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cebfishing |
#16 | |||
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Posts: 503 03/16/2009 23:13 |
The nicest fishing Montague I have is a 7 1/2 ft Fishkill. Excellent condition. Labeled with white ink hand written.... Montague #1F2F 2 pc Fly 7 1/2 ft HEH -
E......
The butt section has a metal stripper guide and another guide. The tip sections have 5 guides plus a tip top. I think the Fishkill is one of the nicest looking fly rods, with the dark green thread plus the light yellow tipping along with the nice black and green reelseat. Very nice to fish with. Chuck |
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cyangler |
I was impressed by the mirror tips | #17 | ||
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Posts: 48 03/17/2009 13:43 |
The tip sections on my Light Trout RedWing are nearly identical. The workmanship is par with single maker rod builders work. Better than some work I've
seen by limited production manufacturers of reputable esteem. Also, the Light Trout has a fine taper from the mid on to the tip with the last 18" very
delicate in deed. Hard to believe this was produced in mass consisting of six strips 70 some odd years ago (however, it was produced in Mass
- not far from Athol - home of Starret instruments). Not that I mean to sound provincial, I just happen to be the son of a Tool and Die Maker. I'm tempted
to go find my mic and check it out.
I meant to check the number of guides last night to see if it also has four as mentioned had been observed in a sampling of Light TRWs earlier in the thread. Got busy fiddlin' with another rod and was distracted, but will get back to the board with the count later. Cy |
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bobbeegee |
#18 | |||
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Posts: 2492 03/17/2009 17:51 |
The Red Wing is an appealing rod to me.
What is the difference in the Red Wing and the Red Wing Game Cock? bobbyg Go Heels!!! |
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waltryan1 |
#19 | |||
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Posts: 30 03/18/2009 08:39 |
I started leaning about bamboo rods on Montague handyman specials. I had a real sweet 7 1/2 ft Rapidan that I had just got back after having Bailey Woods
ferrules installed stolen out of my truck last summer. On the ones I have cast there was a lot of variability in the quality that I perceived.
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freestoner |
#20 | |||
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Posts: 612 03/18/2009 08:47 |
I just got done lawn casting an old 9' Montague Abercrombie & Fitch Yellowstone Special. A very nice loading 6 weight.
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