Varnishing with a turkey baster

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2dogkayak	Varnishing with a turkey baster		Lead	[-]
Posts: 186 03/22/2009 21:46	Tags : None I just watched "How It's Made" on the History Channel. I think they featured a Thomas & Thomas shop. For varnishing, the craftsman used a turkey baster, drizzling the varnish down the rod while turning it. The rod rotated in a pool of varnish. Pretty nifty. Three coats were used. Has anyone tried this? Bill
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JimmyB11		#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 38 03/22/2009 22:03	It works, like all these methods, you polish out the imperfections and away you go.
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jayhake		#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 185 03/22/2009 22:20	I have used the method on two rods. It works quite well and I do not polish. If you thin the varnish quite thin, it works well. You need a good system for dust control, a humid room works good if your wife will let you use the bathroom. You can check out a lengthly discussion of the method here: http://www.rodbuildingforum.com/index.php?showtopic=14761 Cheers, Jay
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Blue Quill		#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 41 03/22/2009 23:07	Hi Gents, Being a long-time admirer of T&T's history and cane rodmaking abilities, I found myself studying each frame of that episode over and over like it was the Zapruder film. Suffice to say there are many incongruities between the narration and the footage. I believe this was done to provide a basic understanding of what they do and the steps involved without giving away too much of the process. That said, although a turkey baster can certainly be used to finish a rod with varnish, and many do a terrific job of it, for several reasons, some visible in the film, I don't think this is how T&T does it when the cameras aren't rolling. If this is in fact the case; bearing in mind the caliber of T&T rods and T&T's position in the rodmaking community, I would completely respect their decision to be obscure. Chuck
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WhoBeBoo.thebamboorodroom	i just tried a modified 'turkey baster' method	#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 21 03/23/2009 00:41	on two rods and im quite pleased with the results. i mounted a rod turning motor (the kind rotate the rod as wrap varnish dries) so the rod hung vertical...this kept the rod rotating thru the process. i then purchased a squeeze bottle at the local beauty supply store...there are many to choose from ...i picked one with an offset snout. i thinned with naphtha ...and i mean VERY thin. i started at the bottom and had a "V" shaped stick to hold the rod against the snout of the squeeze bottle. the whole process took about 20 seconds and it dried in about 15 minutes. i stopped after two thin coats...i then wrapped the guides. im now waiting for the varnish on the guides to dry so i can sand them out with 600-1000grit. then ill go for one more pour of the thinned varnish over the wraps and guides...and maybe one more pour for good measure. this method uses very little varnish...it's very quick and produces smooth shiny results. make sure you provide for a big splash pan for the run off (ask me how i know).
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hookjaw23		#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 127 03/23/2009 09:13	My very first rods were finished using this method and it worked well... when I finally had the space I built a dip system in a dedicated room... honestly, I was putting off finishing rods because the dip setup took too long, during finishing the room i kept the room at about 90 degrees (to thin the varnish), and I wasn't really getting better results... I went back to the baster recently and it works well for me.... actually alot better than before b/c i have better prep procedures after a bunch of rods.... like anything, it takes time to get your system established... you can't expect perfect results right off the bat but if you put in some time, it works well (like a drip system, dip system, brush, sprayer, etc....)... it's just another way to skin a cat. I was turned onto the system by Tom Maxwell a few months before he passed away. He was building rods at the Evening Hatch shop in the Poconos. My first few rods were tung oil b/c i thought the only way to get a good finish was to use a dip system. Seeing I was a young kid w/o much budget he suggested the turkey baster because "that's how they've done it at T&T for years..." give it a shot... i buy my basters by the case at the dollar store. God knows what they think i do w/ those things... -matt
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PaducahMichael		#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 536 03/28/2009 21:35	Blue Quill wrote: Hi Gents, Being a long-time admirer of T&T's history and cane rodmaking abilities, I found myself studying each frame of that episode over and over like it was the Zapruder film. Suffice to say there are many incongruities between the narration and the footage. I believe this was done to provide a basic understanding of what they do and the steps involved without giving away too much of the process. That said, although a turkey baster can certainly be used to finish a rod with varnish, and many do a terrific job of it, for several reasons, some visible in the film, I don't think this is how T&T does it when the cameras aren't rolling. If this is in fact the case; bearing in mind the caliber of T&T rods and T&T's position in the rodmaking community, I would completely respect their decision to be obscure. Chuck Chuck, I don't know what they currently do as a varnish technique, but Dick Spurr told me many years ago that they did indeed use the turkey baster method. It works pretty darn well, too - but all of the usual cautions and practices must still be used: watch out for dust, sand between coats, don't let varnish get too thick. Seems too easy to be effective, but it really works. The New Divine Rods
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drbaits		#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 98 03/29/2009 09:24	for those who didn't catch the show, I googled around and found it on Utube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9Fm7dJfuzA Do most of you do the flaming step on the bamboo before splitting?
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Blue Quill		#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 56 03/29/2009 11:06	Hi PaducahMichael, As I said; I know that a turkey baster can be used (generically "drip method"). I've seen it used and even experimented with it myself years ago. There are several incongruities in the film relative to the narration, but regarding varnish as relates to this subject: The person shown wrapping the rods in the film is wrapping all the guides on unvarnished blanks / the person shown varnishing with the turkey baster is varnishing blanks with no guides attached. Drip varnishing works, but from a technical perspective it tends to starve the top-end of a section and overload the bottom-end of a section, regardless of how much you thin the varnish. Thinning will help, but the difference is still there, and it is very apparent after several coats. It is because of the varnish cascading onto itself down the rod, slower and slower as the varnish tacks-off and thickens. If you look at a rod that has been drip-finished (turkey baster, etc.) you will see that one end has uniform varnish over the corners and well-defined flats (top-end of the dripping process), and the other end has less defined corners and domed flats (bottom-end of the dripping process). It is pretty easy to see, easily measured, and can be felt if rolled between the fingers. It is particularly apparent if the tip was drip-finished tip-end down, as it will come out almost round due to this effect combined with the small across-flats dimension. Regardless of the film, its narration, or anecdotal statements and references; none of these varnish thickness-issues is apparent on any of the T&T rods I have ever seen. The show is about how things are made; in this case bamboo fly rods. T&T graciously explained how, but nowhere in the show is it stated that this is howT&T rods are made. Bamboo rods are in fact varnished as a step in production, and T&T showed the viewer a bamboo rod being varnished. Never is it expressed that any of these steps is in fact how T&T does it. T&T have great skill as cane rodmakers, and most of it is talent and experience, but you can bet even Tom Dorsey keeps a few things up his sleeve. Chuck
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jayhake		#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 187 03/29/2009 14:44	Blue Quill wrote: Hi PaducahMichael, As I said; I know that a turkey baster can be used (generically "drip method"). I've seen it used and even experimented with it myself years ago. There are several incongruities in the film relative to the narration, but regarding varnish as relates to this subject: The person shown wrapping the rods in the film is wrapping all the guides on unvarnished blanks / the person shown varnishing with the turkey baster is varnishing blanks with no guides attached. Drip varnishing works, but from a technical perspective it tends to starve the top-end of a section and overload the bottom-end of a section, regardless of how much you thin the varnish. Thinning will help, but the difference is still there, and it is very apparent after several coats. It is because of the varnish cascading onto itself down the rod, slower and slower as the varnish tacks-off and thickens. If you look at a rod that has been drip-finished (turkey baster, etc.) you will see that one end has uniform varnish over the corners and well-defined flats (top-end of the dripping process), and the other end has less defined corners and domed flats (bottom-end of the dripping process). It is pretty easy to see, easily measured, and can be felt if rolled between the fingers. It is particularly apparent if the tip was drip-finished tip-end down, as it will come out almost round due to this effect combined with the small across-flats dimension. Regardless of the film, its narration, or anecdotal statements and references; none of these varnish thickness-issues is apparent on any of the T&T rods I have ever seen. The show is about how things are made; in this case bamboo fly rods. T&T graciously explained how, but nowhere in the show is it stated that this is howT&T rods are made. Bamboo rods are in fact varnished as a step in production, and T&T showed the viewer a bamboo rod being varnished. Never is it expressed that any of these steps is in fact how T&T does it. T&T have great skill as cane rodmakers, and most of it is talent and experience, but you can bet even Tom Dorsey keeps a few things up his sleeve. Chuck Chuck, Interesting post and I agree with you about the potential for rounding the flats when drip/pour varnishing, particularly on very fine tips. I am curious as to your thoughts about varnishing in a dip tube? It would seem that even though the extraction rate is slow, you might run a similar risk if you dip tip-down as well. Certainly more varnish is going to slough off back into the tube as you remove the rod, but it would seem (at least conceptually to this relative novice) like there would still be some accumulated varnish running down the blank as well. Given that, I wonder if brush varnishing isn't the best way to ensure a uniform coat of varnish on a rod? Thanks, Jay
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Blue Quill		#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 59 03/29/2009 21:17	Hi Jay, Dip finishing doesn't present this problem because of the dipping speed involved. It's not that the varnish doesn't move down slightly when dip-finishing (it does), but because of the speed of the dipping process (usually in the 2 inch/minute to 3 inch/minute range), it is barely measurable as the varnish is leaving only a thin film, and very little if any "extra" varnish is being pulled up above the meniscus of the dip tank. When drip finishing; compared to above it's all "extra varnish", which pours down the sides of the sections as it stabilizes into a film, the last drips often coming off an hour or more after the section is hung up. The later which is the reason for the problem I describe. However when dip finishing, the sections virtually never drip when they finally exit the dip tank as they are being extracted at a rate slower than the varnish would pour down the section under gravity. Brush finishing and wiping probably produce the flattest-flats right out of the finish, but they present their own problems between-coats when compared to dip finishing. The same holds true for spray painting. In my opinion dip-finishing is probably the easiest way to get constantly flat-flats and uniform varnish thickness with the least amount of peripheral steps and their problems, but again, it depends on the size of your operation, your rod output, and your rod making sequence. Chuck
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jayhake		#11	[url]	[-]
Posts: 189 03/30/2009 10:37	Thanks Chuck, Good thoughts. Jay
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Varnishing with a turkey baster

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