Heddon 0f and T&T

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cwood	Heddon 0f and T&T		Lead	[-]
Posts: 544 03/28/2009 19:14	Tags : None This may be a long shot, but does anyone have a T&T 8 ft. 4 wt. and a Heddon 8 ft. 0f (any model #). I was recently told that these two tapers are the same and I was wondering if there was any proof out there. Maybe in the taper archives somewhere (I'm obviously no maker)? I'm simply curious if a high end company like T&T would use a taper from a workin' man's company like Heddon. I have handled all the 8 ft. heddon's except the 0f, and each were fantastic. I especially liked the 1.5f. I realize today's makers appreciate the Heddon tapers and some copy them, but was this really happening in the 70's and 80's or is it a new trend since folks have started realizing how good they really are? Maybe T&T was ahead of the curve? CWood
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bobbeegee	Not exclusive	#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2526 03/28/2009 19:50	Just my opinion, but I wouldn't think T&T woud build a rod exactly on a Heddon taper. Would have deviated a little here and there to make it their own, or possibly arrived at the taper empirically or through trial and error. And, if they did, I'll bet it's a very good fishing rod. I don't think fishing rod tapers qualify for patents, so, no harm, no foul. Interesting to know if they are the same? My opinion again, but I feel there are a limited number of very good, fishable tapers. Every builder tinkers with these tapers. A 1000ths here, a 1000ths there, hollowed, five sided, quadrate, slight swell, no swell, different tempering, etc., etc., ad nauseum. That being said, I feel there are a few venerable rods by earlier builders such as Leonard, Thomas, Heddon, Granger, and others, that very, very much resemble the others in taper and action, not surprisingly. The 8 foot length seems to be the bellwether for these similar tapers? Just not that many new tapers available in the standard lengths. Just a couple of thoughts, worth probably a couple of cents! bobbyg p.s. Those working man companies like Heddon and Granger offered some of the best tapers ever developed....and yes, some of those were probably borrowed. Go Heels!!! Last Edited By: bobbeegee 03/28/2009 21:43. Edited 6 times.
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Marty		#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 90 03/28/2009 22:53	If I am not mistaken the 8' winston taper was the same as the granger 8 footer. I would agree that tweaking aside the fishable tapers are not as numerous as you would think. I have cast a lot of rods from makers that had tweaked a taper to make it a touch softer/ faster etc. It seems to be a highly mystical arcane process pretty sure it involves burnt offerings at the full moon and chanting. But the guys that know how to do it work magic. I'd like to take a rodmaking class not b/c I have a burning desire to build a rod but would like to see soup to nuts numerical taper and raw materials to finished rod just to have a better appreciation of those mysteries like tapers etc. I know a bad rod when I cast one but I don't believe the numerical difference (taperwise) in a great rod and a tomato stake is all that vast. As I understand it miniscule variances in tapers and materials make a vast difference in the finished product. Life is too short for cheap scotch and plastic rods. Tight Lines!!! -M
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Blue Quill		#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 57 03/29/2009 11:47	Hi CWood, Fly rods being tools, and expected to cast a given line weight in more or less a given manner, there are only so many ways a given material (in this case bamboo) can be configured to produce an 8'0" 4wt rod. And a wide selection of bamboo rods have been made for a very long time. Subsequently it is more than possible that several makers could arrive at the same taper for a given length/line within a few thousandths of each other when measured at a given station (measuring point along the taper). For this reason many rodmakers will often use established classic tapers as a foundation for their own tapers (for example taking a taper by Heddon, Payne, Leonard, PHY, etc. and modifying it to suit their views of rod action and casting performance). This is a n excellent way to build upon decades of empirical evaluation and elimination, and a much easier way to produce a rod that will meet customer expectations. As a maker I have derived what I believe to be my own tapers, but given the number of past makers and rod models they made, and normal rodmaking tolerances, it is unlikely they haven't been made before at one time or another. But, however similar to a classic taper my taper may be, with my heat-treatment regimen, my node spacing, my rod finish, my ferrule type, my adhesives, and my guide spacing, it practically guarantees my rod will cast uniquely from all other rods of similar taper, and this is true of any makers rod; new taper or not. Chuck
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cwood		#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 546 03/30/2009 08:43	I realize there are only so many tapers out there and there is a slight chance that two separate makers may come to the same taper empirically, but it seems like copying tapers is more of a recent phenomenon. You never heard someone state "based on a Payne 100H taper" thirty years ago and before. I'm sure it happened, but how many folks own rods by a historical maker (1970s or before) with someone else's taper inscribed on the rod. Now you often see XXXX~ Maker, Payne 100 H taper (just using that taper as an example). I just wondered if Dorsey and Maxwell handled some nice Heddons, including the 0f taper, and decided they would include that taper in their line up. It wouldn't be a negative thing against T&T, in fact to me it shows they were willing to use excellent, established tapers in addition to deriving their own. CWood
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Special Dry Fly		#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 36 04/01/2009 14:03	I have a T&T 7' 5wt Classic that I love. I measured the taper one day and found the first 35" (from the tip down) were all .002 or less over the dimensions commonly listed for the Payne 102. From 40" to the handle, the diameter of my 7 footer increases more rapidly than the 102, which is an 8 footer. I have wondered if T&T tweaked the 102 to make this rod...
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ibookje		#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1544 04/02/2009 16:21	I always wondered how the two gents at T&T started. Did they start with a bunch of proven classic tapers and refined them or did they come up with their own unique tapers?
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