George Varney's Influence at Montague???

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TheMontyMan	George Varney's Influence at Montague???		Lead	[-]
Posts: 44 04/06/2009 00:36	Tags : None It seems to be common knowledge that George I. Varney had a significant, positive impact on the design and quality of rods at the Montague City Rod Company. Campbell's book indicates that he came on board around 1900. Does anybody have any information about his actual activities while at Montague, or how long he was there? I'd also love to see some examples of his first-hand work from the Varney Brothers & Company days (and any other pre-Montague Varney work). Here's the specific nut I'm trying to crack - I'd like to get a really good feel for his work, through rock-solid verified examples, so I can figure out exactly (or closely) what designs and improvements can be attributed to his influence. If I can do that, I think I can become more accurate with identifying unmarked Monty/Chubb rods that show evidence of his influence. Does this sound like an attainable dream? Any other information about George Varney, would be much appreciated. . . . Rex TheMontyMan
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ShenRods		#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 195 04/06/2009 16:10	Don Cremeans has a 3 piece 7' 1" Varney rod that will absolutely blow your mind. He displayed it at the Catskill gathering last fall. The tips are .044" over varnish - ferrules are drawn NS - 13/7 step-downs (yes - size 7) that he made. The taper is very sophisticated - not only does he step down across ferrule stations but also at each guide. The guide placement was an intergral part of the taper design and execution. The man was indeed a true master rodbuilder and this rod is a testament to that fact. I have never seen another rod like this. I can safely say, there is very few, if any individuals that could faithfully replicate this rod - it is that good. Don's phone number is 304-522-2041 and he is a big fan of Varney. He will enjoy talking to you about it. Chris
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pcg		#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2557 04/06/2009 17:42 Admin	Varney remains one of the biggest untold stories out there. He was SO important, yet we have only glancing information about him. Jeff Hatton & me were talking this morning about this very thing, and I kidded Jeff that Varney should be his next project, his next book. Varney set the bar on so many aspects of rod building, particularly his exquisite components--yet we know so little. I'd love to see that Don Cremeans rod! Last Edited By: pcg 04/06/2009 17:45. Edited 1 time.
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bobbeegee	Good post Rex!	#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2552 04/06/2009 18:21	I've always been curious about Mr. Varney's contributions to the bamboo rod lore. I've forever been in the dark about him and always at a loss of relevant information as pertains to his many attributed skills with a bamboo culm. Maybe this will stir up some thought and revelation. Bob Go Heels!!!
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PaducahMichael		#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 557 04/06/2009 20:24	pcg wrote: Varney remains one of the biggest untold stories out there. He was SO important, yet we have only glancing information about him. Jeff Hatton & me were talking this morning about this very thing, and I kidded Jeff that Varney should be his next project, his next book. Varney set the bar on so many aspects of rod building, particularly his exquisite components--yet we know so little. I'd love to see that Don Cremeans rod! If I were braver, I would take on the George Varney saga. IMHO, he's the most mystifying character in the bamboo rod history. He seems to have been almost everywhere for a little while at one time or another during his career. Anybody know where he's buried? Where he was born? It's really hard to pick up his trail, even his back-trail. Legend says he was at Leonard, then Montague, then Heddon and then he sort of disappeared. I have a theory for what he did after Heddon, but no way to prove it - YET. The New Divine Rods
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PaducahMichael		#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 558 04/06/2009 22:37	CW, that would mean he was BACK at Montague as he was with Heddon from about 1906 thru about 1909 - not in Dowagiac, but in Chetek, Wisconsin where Heddon built a rod factory. A notice in the Chetek newspaper, Sept 21, 1906 in regard to the new Heddon factory in that town stated: "Mr. George Varney, one of their men, has worked at rodmaking for the last 35 or 40 years so that we feel assured that this factory will be equal to any in the state." I didn't know he ran for office. Socialist, huh? Guess that's why he and the very conservative Charles Heddon did not get along well. Very interesting! If he was at Leonard, he could have been related to the Civil War General George Varney who is buried in Bangor..... The New Divine Rods Last Edited By: PaducahMichael 04/06/2009 22:54. Edited 1 time.
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TheMontyMan	George Varney, the Mystery...	#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 45 04/07/2009 00:18	Jeff Hatton and I were discussing this topic last week, while trying to unravel a few of the early Montague mysteries. I think George Varney's story is one worthy of telling, and someone (or a team) should take up this project. His story goes hand-in-hand with the research I'm doing on Montague rods. That project is too immense in itself for me to take this project on at the same time, and do it justice. I'd be willing to throw my hat in the ring to help out on a joint effort. Something to note, that might be unrelated - There appears to be a major shift in the marketing, if not in rod design and building, at Montague around 1928. It appears that before 1928, Montague offered and advertised as many as 100 production fly rod models at any given time. From what I have gathered, beginning in 1928, Montague shaved the advertised list of rods down to about a dozen fly rod models. It seems that 1928 saw the birth of some of the models that we know so well, and that would live on until the company's end, including the Manitou, Red Wing and Fishkill. 1928 marked the end of almost every fly rod model that they had made before, including the Varney, Superb, and Senate models. Again, this observation could be unrelated, but I'm throwing it out there in case it rings any bells. I would sure love to see Don's 7'1" Varney rod as well. I'll give him a call. In another thread a few weeks back, someone was asking how many short fly rods Montague built. A quick review of my reference materials turned up at least 16 production fly rod models that were made in lengths of 8' or less, including a few 6'6" rods, and the mystical and illusive 7'6" Manitous and Red Wings. . . . Rex TheMontyMan
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Short Tip		#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1066 04/07/2009 06:35 Moderator	I've seen and handled Don's little Varney. Wow. Quite amazing.
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Housatonic Quill		#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 741 04/07/2009 07:19	I'm more or less (leaning toward "well, probably") convinced that Varney, while he was in the Midwest, spent some time in Kalamazoo. Nestled in my Diamond Wind collection (do 8 constitute a collection?) are 2 nearly identical early 1900s rods - same serrated drawn ferrules, same fancy knurling, same drawn reelseat with sculptured rails, same diamond winds - one of them is a Shakespeare 3335 and the other is merely stamped Heddon on the end of the reelseat. These rods give the lie to the ideas that a) Shakespeare never made any rods on its own and b) Heddon made no fly rods before the 1920s. Oh, and Pat, don't forget Varney's earlier work for Tryon, which we discussed at http://clarksclassicflyrodforum.yuku.com/reply/96839/t/Mystery-metalsmith.html#reply-96839 The more I think I know, the less I know I know. Last Edited By: Housatonic Quill 04/07/2009 07:22. Edited 1 time.
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Mainiac		#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 714 04/07/2009 08:20	About 20 years ago one of the first rods I ever restored was a George Varney rod. I'd like to think I did his work justice but probably did not. The rod had already been stripped of its original finish, guides, all wraps, and replaced with red nylon thread, snakes, and a polyurethane finish (fun to strip off). I tried to research the rod and at that time no one knew much about them. I finally found someone who knew of them, Mary Keane. Marty really knew and appreciated Varney's work. He went on and on about the colors & beauty of the wrappings. Based on marty's description and the "ghosting" left by the old wraps I set about to finish the rod. I have some old "real" photos of it somewhere. They are of poor quality and won't tell much of anything. I used to take them for insurance purposes when I took in work. I probably still have the restoration notes but a brief description of the rod from memory.... I recall it was an odd ball length like 8'2" or something. It was calcutta cane (no burn marks what so ever) and the flats had a roundish quality to them. It had a dramatically swelled butt, no inserts within it, and very fine tips with agate tip-tops. Probably took a 3 line. The nickel silver reelseat was beautiful and was marked "Geo. A. Varney, Maker".... (underneath) "Montague City, Ma".
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pcg		#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2560 04/07/2009 08:50 Admin	Just a thought, without any basis in known fact (pure speculation, in other words), but Varney could well have died before 1920. In 1912 when he ran for office, he would have already been in his mid to late 50s. By Rex's 1928 date, when Monty shifted production models, Varney would have been close to 70, perhaps older. And the average man in those days rarely lived beyond 60. He may have "disappeared" as a force simply because he died. Rodmakers in those days were far from celebrated personalities, and he would have passed quietly. I'm deep in the Dingley reel book, and can't even think about this. But census records could be pulled for 1920, then 1930 for Varney, along w/ the other usual sources. But by the time he was back in Hampshire County, he would have probably been past his peak creative years. (I know I'm stating broad generalities, but like cliches, they are repeated because they're often true.) Sure would be nice if someone would jump on this. George Varney deserves the recognition. Pat
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Housatonic Quill		#11	[url]	[-]
Posts: 742 04/07/2009 13:36	Damn, Charlie, you're good! The more I think I know, the less I know I know.
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pcg		#12	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2564 04/07/2009 13:54 Admin	Excellent work! I've been off-line the last couple hours or would have chimed in even earlier. "Minie Pembleton." The funny links out there. And each makes sense.
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pcg		#13	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2566 04/07/2009 14:54 Admin	New Haven was the definite epicenter for a time. Leeper? Winchester, of course.
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troutwings		#14	[url]	[-]
Posts: 213 04/07/2009 16:29	Ok, I'll get us back on track:-} Here's some pics of my 8'2", 3pc, 5wt Varney. Mainiac's 8'2" restoration and mine make two 8'2" Varneys. Wonder if that was a standard length for him? I purchased the rod from Len Codella some years ago. Dennis
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Mainiac		#15	[url]	[-]
Posts: 715 04/07/2009 17:01	Dennis, Your Varney looks later than the one I had. The ferrules and reelseat were slightly different and yours looks like normal cane rather than calcutta. The butt had a very pronounced swell. If I were to venture a guess I'd say the rod I restored was circa 1900 and yours looks like 10+- years later. The grip on the Varney that went through my hands looked like an odd reverse Pear shape(skinny end near reelseat). I'll try to dig for the photos I have and see if anything worth while can be seen in them. Anyway, that rod is a beauty Dennis.
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hopkintoncane		#16	[url]	[-]
Posts: 375 04/07/2009 17:15	To Rex's question regarding influences, one thing I can see straight off, and this relates to the "Favorite" dry fly rod thread that NB brought up a couple of weeks ago, that intermediate pattern looks familiar, with the red bands with "detached" tipping, and the swell to the butt end of the reelseat, those are details you generally only see on the late 20's through early 30's Montys, Todd Last Edited By: hopkintoncane 04/07/2009 17:29. Edited 1 time.
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Gnome		#17	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2044 04/07/2009 17:50 King of the Gnomes	Charlie and all, What about Georges Brother ? Was that Leeper? They where partners in Central valley in the 1890's and they produced rods that where signed; George I Varney & Brother Central Valley N.Y. Completely different markings than the Monty era Varney's Jeff
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Gnome		#18	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2045 04/07/2009 20:49 King of the Gnomes	Charlie, If I have insulted or chastised you it was unintentional and I apologize for it. Jeff
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PaducahMichael		#19	[url]	[-]
Posts: 559 04/07/2009 22:28	Housatonic Quill wrote: I'm more or less (leaning toward "well, probably") convinced that Varney, while he was in the Midwest, spent some time in Kalamazoo. Nestled in my Diamond Wind collection (do 8 constitute a collection?) are 2 nearly identical early 1900s rods - same serrated drawn ferrules, same fancy knurling, same drawn reelseat with sculptured rails, same diamond winds - one of them is a Shakespeare 3335 and the other is merely stamped Heddon on the end of the reelseat. These rods give the lie to the ideas that a) Shakespeare never made any rods on its own and b) Heddon made no fly rods before the 1920s. You're wrong about Heddon making fly rods prior to 1924. We'll discuss via email if you wish. Mine is Paducahmichael@aol.com. Back to the Varney topic, I believe the sum of all Varney knowledge to date is contained in this thread. So far - so good. And I think Patrick is right. It's my belief that Mr Varney died around 1920. I think he was early- middle aged when his name was associated with Leonard in Central Valley. (We KNOW one of his patents was granted when he lived in Central Valley in 1890.) Did he work for Leonard? That's the legend - would like some proof to back it up. We also know that at the time he worked for Heddon in 1906 he was said to have "35 or 40 years" of rod making experience. That would have had him beginning in rod work around 1870 - near the time Leonard started up. If that's true, then a date of death around 1920 would be reasonable even if he had a natural life span. The New Divine Rods
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TheMontyMan	Nice Example of Varney's Work...	#20	[url]	[-]
Posts: 46 04/08/2009 02:36	Troutwings, Thanks so much for sharing! What a pristine example of a Varney rod!! The hardware is very similar to the Red Wings of the 20's and the Conway Specials I've seen. This particular reel seat, sliding band and winding check are depicted in illustrations of the "Varney" model in a mid-20's catalog, as well as the description, "hand welted serrated ferrules of special type made for 'Varney' Rod only... Lengths 8 to 10 1/2 feet. ... $45.00" Below are some pics of similar marked rods that I have. All of these lack the rails on the reel seat, and the fancy sliding band. First photo left to right - Rod marked M.C. Rod Co. - Amherst Mass. // Marshal Field & Co. Conway Special // Marshal Field & Co. Conway Special Second photo top to bottom - Red Wing // Conway Special // Red Wing The Red Wings above have agate strippers and agate tip guides. The agate tip guides are one red, and one gold, to match the windings. One of the Red Wings is an 8'6" that's a light 3 wt. rod. I used it quite a bit last spring, and really enjoyed the casting experience. Mainiac, I'd love to see pics of your Varney as well!! These examples speak volumes to me! I'm getting exactly what I wanted out of this discussion. Anyone else out there with a similar rod or story to share?? . . . Rex TheMontyMan
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George Varney's Influence at Montague???

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