The impact of a VAT on collecting

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Chartist1	The impact of a VAT on collecting		Lead	[-]
Posts: 349 05/28/2009 07:09	Tags : None I read this morning that one thing congress is considering is slapping a value added tax (VAT) on goods sold in America to pay for healthcare and the federal deficit. 130 countries around the world already have such a tax. A 10% VAT would push a $2000 rod to $2200. The affect I believe would be to increase demand for preowned rods and reels and hurt demand for new equipment. Rod makers will be hurt big time while those with large collections would see a theoretical windfall......The only problem is discretionary items might see a demand reduction as more money must be spent on food and clothing.
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cwood		#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 595 05/28/2009 08:04	If you have 2 grand to drop on a rod (a.k.a. luxury item) I don't think such a tax would deter the purchase. Job losses, high health care expenses, and a general lack of income are what will keep folks from buying rods IMO. CWood Last Edited By: cwood 05/28/2009 15:25. Edited 1 time.
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mac7x		#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 859 05/28/2009 10:36	Yeah, it would probably hurt makers of fishing rods more than makers of bragging rods. Not to suggest that some guys don't fish their bragging rods. Or that some bragging rods aren't also great fishing rods. And since a VAT would likely be built in to the price of an item, states, like my own, with a sales tax, would get a tax increase without having to enact one. A tax on a tax. Isn't it grand. Last Edited By: mac7x 05/28/2009 11:10. Edited 1 time.
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creakycane		#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2220 05/28/2009 10:50	I believe that it will be interesting a the beginning, shoul this come into being - will prices still be listed as is, and then the VAT added as a state sales tax is added, or will it be built in?
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bulldog1935		#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 7254 05/28/2009 11:26 Bulldog1935	As a cigar smoker, I have been pleasantly surprised with the impact of the S-CHIPS tax on cigar prices. Rather than $1/cigar which is the price of the tax, cigar prices have typically increased about 10-20% in general, meaning the suppliers are willing to cut their markup in order to hold prices down and spur competition. the rods are never obsolete - the marketing is.
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alpom		#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 323 05/28/2009 11:44	If the cost of living will go up by 10% every one will be effected including "those with large collections" people just will not have money to buy
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tedgolden	The tax man commeth	#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2868 05/28/2009 12:00 Moderator	I think most transactions for used rods/reels are under the radar, so to speak. Gray market, stuff. But I know all you guys pay capital gains taxes on your rod/reel transactions that show a profit (at regular income rates no less). Right?
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mac7x		#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 860 05/28/2009 13:34	Tedgolden wrote: "But I know all you guys pay capital gains taxes on your rod/reel transactions that show a profit (at regular income rates no less). Right?" Right. Just like the government lets you declare a loss on stuff that, when inflation is taken into account, you actually did incur a loss on.
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oneculm		#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 559 05/28/2009 13:54	I would agree with Chris Wood 100%. When I look at : your rod collection/got a new rod/your go to rod/your favorite taper/. best of the bunch and the same type post over and over I would guess that 10% means nothing to a lot of board members. Myself not included.
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czkid		#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3998 05/28/2009 14:59 Moderator	But Dave.... you're a lovable old grump, so it doesn't matter anyway because we love you just like you've got millions!!! Just think, soon you'll only have to pay for mama, the daughter, and lovable old you!!! Europe has put up with a VAT for many years, and it only seems to slow things down a bit for the natives... anyone that tries to make a direct comparison is probably whistling in the wind, since there are so many cultural differentials. Ralph
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PYochim		#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 721 05/28/2009 15:25	For someone to make the assumption that a person spending $2000 on a rod can afford another $200 in taxes is ridiculous The buyer is capable of determining what he/she can afford, not a government agency.
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cwood		#11	[url]	[-]
Posts: 596 05/28/2009 15:44	No one said the gov is making that assumption, just me (and Dave I guess). If someone has 2K burning a hole in their pocket for a rod, and has such funds to spend freely on a toy, a couple hundred isn't going to be the deal breaker. Look at the prices in cane rods in general, they have gone sky rocket compared to 10-15 years ago because folks are willing to pay it. This group loves big names and to boast about their multi-thousand dollar rods. A couple hundred bucks won't slow that crowd down a bit. CWood Last Edited By: cwood 05/28/2009 16:03. Edited 2 times.
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alpom		#12	[url]	[-]
Posts: 324 05/28/2009 16:25	CWood, You got a very big mistake that is very popular now even in DC. I just bought rod last week on the forum for 2600 i wouldn't buy it if it was 2860. Wealth spread will have impact every one buyers and sellers and will pass to buyer of cheaper rods when more people will have to lower their limits
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PYochim		#13	[url]	[-]
Posts: 722 05/28/2009 16:43	The government is making the assumption. It's called class envy. In my opinion, that extra 10% would be better off put toward a nice reel than lining government coffers. There is nothing more irritating (and unfair) than some bureaucrat telling me what I can afford. Paul Last Edited By: PYochim 05/28/2009 17:20. Edited 2 times.
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tedgolden		#14	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2869 05/28/2009 17:00 Moderator	Not to mention taxes raised by the Dingle/Johnson- Wallop/Breaux acts. Its a wonderment that any of us lumpenproletariat can afford to buy a rod!
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fishbum		#15	[url]	[-]
Posts: 290 05/28/2009 17:04	Tell you what folks, the mid-term election can't get here any too soon. This VAT crap is just another way the clowns in Washington DC want too get into your pocketbook. We have the best economy, best health care, best democracy and country with more opertunities in the world and all our current federal government wants to do is make our country like the failed social states of Europe. I am getting off my soap box and going fishing while I can still afford it. fishbum
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riverwader		#16	[url]	[-]
Posts: 37 05/28/2009 17:10	Those that can buy a rod will do so, those that will not, will not. The guy that can or will spend $2k on a fly rod I would hedge to guess can and will 99% percent of the time spend the extra $200.00. (me included). I don't have a problem paying my taxes, I have never been afraid of higher taxes, or supporting a govt. program I believe in, being the law abiding liberal that I am, however, there needs to be oversight on how all money is spent period, from taxes on cigarettes to fly rods. That is always a grey issue in a democratic society. Now I am off my soap box.
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Greg Reynolds		#17	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1959 05/28/2009 17:12 Orvis Database Founder	cwood wrote: If you have 2 grand to drop on a rod (a.k.a. luxury item) I don't think such a tax would deter the purchase. Job losses, high health care expenses, and a general lack of income are what will keep folks from buying rods IMO. There are consequences to raising taxes. The luxury tax on yachts enacted in the mid-1990s was later repealed after it stifled the American boat building industry.
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mr flymph		#18	[url]	[-]
Posts: 113 05/28/2009 17:27	With regard to higher taxes...in the words of Bachman, Turner Overdrive..."You ain't seen nothing yet". I hope that's a comforting thought. Speak yer mind, but ride a fast horse! Last Edited By: mr flymph 05/28/2009 17:42. Edited 1 time.
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cwood		#19	[url]	[-]
Posts: 597 05/28/2009 18:33	"...........that extra 10% would be better off put toward a nice reel than lining government coffers." Now that I can agree with !!! Hey, I'm a Fisheries biologist, not an economist. I have no idea what these tax dollars would go towards, although you guys have made me interested in the tax and I will definitely look it up. I was simply stating my opinions and observations about folks that spend the big bucks on rods. There is a subset of cane rod collectors and fishermen (maybe more the former than the latter) that will drop a couple grand on a rod and it isn't that big of a deal. I only know this because I see catalogues, web sites, and this forum all the time with rods selling for what may or may not be considered crazy prices.The threads that Dave mentioned earlier (My Rod Collection, etc.) also show just how elaborate some of our collections really are. I suspect the majority of those folks would be ticked off at Uncle Sam for taking their money (not saying they shouldn't be), but then go ahead and purchase what they want anyway. You have to admit that rods have been going way up in price for various reasons over the past decade or so, and they still sell like hot cakes. Maybe it has slowed down recently , but I still see the big ticket items being bought and sold. That being said, if I personally happened to save 2K for my dream rod and all of a sudden the rod was an extra 200, I would probably end up holding out. Of course, I'd probably end up just buying a couple Heddons and a $1000 contemporary rod (I guess 1100) and have all the rods I'd ever need. CWood
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pmag		#20	[url]	[-]
Posts: 421 05/28/2009 18:50	This is a political hotbed and I lean far to the left so it would be best if I didn't state my opinion.
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The impact of a VAT on collecting

The impact of a VAT on collecting