Correct nomenclature

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softstick	Correct nomenclature		Lead	[-]
Posts: 610 06/22/2009 12:38	Tags : None I'm curious what others think correct nomenclature is for older rods from modern rodmakers. Obviously we have a term for older rods which is vintage. But at what point does a rod become vintage? Is it after the rodmaker has passed away? Is it rods more then a certain number of years old? Rods from as new as the seventies or eighties? For instance, if I buy a Bob Taylor rod that is say twenty five years old, is it considered vintage? Do we term it an "early" Bob Taylor rod? An "old" Bob Taylor rod? A "vintage" Bob Taylor rod? Dan
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mer		#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3100 06/22/2009 12:49	softstick wrote: Rods from as new as the seventies or eighties? For instance, if I buy a Bob Taylor rod that is say twenty five years old, is it considered vintage? That 25 year old Bob Taylor rod would have been from as new as 1984. Why not just say it's a Bob Taylor with a born on date of 1984? Early/Old/Late/Vintage Bob Taylor starts to sound like "PreFire/PostFire/Maxwell Leonard". Is there a distinction between vintage and classic? If so, can a rod be both vintage and classic? Can a rod be Classic without being vintage? Can a rod be vintage without being classic? What about a classic, vintage rod that had been sporterized at one time in it's life, but has been restored? What do we call that? This signature left intentionally blank.
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Southbranch		#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 432 06/22/2009 13:27	Sporterized??
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tedgolden		#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2896 06/22/2009 13:30 Moderator	Classic and Vintage are so overused, both individually and collectively they are interchangeable for all practical purposes. I use both depending on whether or not my style is tending toward banal or pedestrian. "The vintage rod has been professionally refreshed giving it that classic look."
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spruce grouse		#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1365 06/22/2009 13:31	There's a difference between being "classic" and being "a classic". My 3 y.o. 7' Jennings with lemon wraps and olive wood seat is classic Jennings but is not (yet) a classic. I would say that a 25 y.o. Bob Taylor might be considered vintage Taylor but not a vintage rod. I think "early" Taylor would be an accurate and apt description.
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oneculm		#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 579 06/22/2009 13:35	Does it really matter?
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FWdB		#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 458 06/22/2009 13:45	I'd prefer to use "early". Wilfred de Bruijn The Lowlands Of Holland
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mer		#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3101 06/22/2009 14:08	A term commonly applied to rifles that have been altered to better suit their owners purposes, changing sights, changing stocks, etc. Think of "Grandpa" taking a file to a grip, changing guides to something he wanted, changing old loose ring guide to snake guides. This signature left intentionally blank.
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pvansch1		#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 4681 06/22/2009 14:35 Moderator	In Connecticut for antique or vintage American cars it's 25 years. Nothing more irritating than seeing a 1985 Toyota Celica with 19" chrome rims, low profile tires and curb feelers with a "antique Car Plate" For rods of makers still alive, I like the term and early rod. Pete
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softstick	re: Correct nomenclature	#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 611 06/22/2009 15:35	Please don't be too grumpy oneculm. For every possible opinion on any infinium subject there's bound to be someone who thinks it matters. I was asking because I had this discussion with a friend over the weekend who has some old rods from a rodmaker who's still turning them out. Myself, I prefer the term "early". Appreciate the comments fellas. Dan
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RPL		#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 208 06/22/2009 15:39	As oneculm notes, nomenclature probably doesn't matter. What's in a name? I agree, but while we're on the subject, "vintage" seems to place emphasis on the age of a rod while "classic" emphasizes style or some other attribute. Maybe vintage is in he eye of the beholder. Perhaps the line that separates modern and vintage comes at some arbitrary point defined by whoever uses the term and whose credibility rises or falls depending on how he uses the term. In other words, you should be careful around here when you use the term vintage, which can sound presumptuous if you're not careful. Hence, "early" or simply "old" is safer and usually in better taste. A respectable amount of time (however you define that) must have passed before you use "vintage" to describe a rod. Maybe rods built in the pre-fiberglass period can be considered vintage, but vintage rods aren't necessarily defined by the demise of their makers. Vintage Winstons or T&T rods were made by existing firms. Some classics are vintage, but classics can also be relatively new rods. An old car or an old rod, whether it's a Honda or a Rolls, or Granger or Garrison, becomes vintage by virtue of its age, hence a car's age alone can qualify it for vintage plates, laughable or not, if some authority decides to set that standard. In that case, however, "vintage" takes on a legal definition just as "drivers' license" is a legal, technical designation that doesn't necessarily mean that the bearer truly knows how to drive. But not all vintage cars, drivers, or rods are necessarily classic. To be classic, a rod might have to embody a style and quality representative of (usually the good qualities) of a certain class of rods, often identified with its maker or purpose, such as a classic Granger or classic salmon rod. But a newly made salmon rod that adheres to a set of traditional standards or style and function might qualify as a classic (though new) salmon rod. Just as some iPods are refered to as classic iPods, but not vintage iPods. How did we get on this subject, and does any of this matter in the end anyway? Last Edited By: RPL 06/22/2009 15:47. Edited 1 time.
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oneculm		#11	[url]	[-]
Posts: 580 06/22/2009 16:55	Dan I would have preferred if you had used my complete title of "Grumpy Old Fart" , but I suppose it does not matter. dave
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PkwyAngler		#12	[url]	[-]
Posts: 216 06/22/2009 17:11	vintage definition vin·tage (vin′tij) *noun* 1. a. the crop or yield of a particular vineyard or grape-growing region in a single season, with reference either to the grapes or to the wine made from them b. wine; specif., the wine, esp. a prized wine, of a particular region in a specified year c. the region or year of a particular wine 2. the act or season of gathering grapes or of making wine 3. the type or model of a particular year or period a car of prewar vintage Etymology: ME, earlier vendage < OFr vendange < L vindemia, vintage < vinum, wine (see vine) + demere, to remove < de-, off + emere, to take: see redeem *adjective* 1. of or produced in a particular vintage: said of wine 2. of a good period, choice, representative of the best, etc. vintage Hemingway 3. representative of or dating from a period long past vintage clothes Webster's New World College Dictionary Copyright © 2005 by Wiley Publishing, Inc., Cleveland, Ohio. Used by arrangement with John Wiley & Sons, Inc. Based on the definitions above, the use of the word "vintage" as a descriptive for bamboo fishing rods leaves too much room for interpretation since there are several meanings associated with the word. Hence, it might be better to equate a rod with year, a time period or era of rod making style rather than stating a rod is "Vintage" which can be a bit abstract.
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levertonhatches		#13	[url]	[-]
Posts: 577 06/23/2009 14:21	I think the terms are useful. My humble understanding would be: Classic = Has stood the test of time, exhibiting values as valid today as at the time of origination. Note the requirement of passage of time, a test of time. "Value" could be intrinsic or artistic or both. My h.u., again, would be not to award "classic" stature in many cases, and what cases that might be would certainly and fairly be open to debate. Vintage = Old. Note the lack of any requirement of any value. IMHO, the term came into use to suggest collectibility without taking a position on value. A "classic" rod would, IMHO, certainly be vintage, while few vintage rods (or anything else) would be classics. Subjectivity comes strongly into play with "classic." Thus, a 1985 Honda is certainly vintage, and to some people's taste might also be a classic. I think "classic" can also be used in another way, e.g., a person might well describe a relativly modern rod for sale as a "classic Bloggs rod," implying that the rod exhibits all of the traditional atributes of a Bloggs rod but not necessarily that the rod was "a classic." For that purpose, time will tell. A third way to use "classic" is to describe things that don't go out of style. For example, the local Main Street has a shop that describes itself as "classic clothiers to gentlemen," suggesting that their clothes are copied after classic designs. For fly rods, I'd rather see such a rod described as a "classic-style" rod, rather than a classic -- but that's just MHO. Cheers, (t.o.) Martin Last Edited By: levertonhatches 06/23/2009 14:27. Edited 1 time.
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