Fake Buyers?

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Boo.fiberglassflyro...	Fake Buyers?		Lead	[-]
Posts: 163 06/26/2009 02:47	Tags : None In attempting to sell my Bolt rod in the Classified Forum I've had a couple emails from people that basically said "I'll take it". I even sent my address to one and have not heard back. Yet, no name is left and when I check their profile I have found no posts and they register that day. I'm curious if this has been a problem for others? And is there a way to deal with it? I guess I will put in my adds that for sale items are open only to forum members with 50 or more posts. Last Edited By: Boo 06/26/2009 02:55. Edited 1 time.
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mer		#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3112 06/26/2009 05:05	Perhaps not fake buyers, but quick case of buyers remorse. The requirement of "minimum of X posts to purchase" is a good one; other places I visit have that requirement. It's clearly stated in the For Sale forum rules as in "You must have X number of meaningful posts in order to post an item for sale." It's something that's easy to enforce, moderators usually edit the original post to say "Please read the rules" and then lock the thread. If the OP persists, they get banned on the third appearance of the ad. The minimum number of posts also makes them participate a little bit in the community first. Perhaps the board owners may think about this requirement? The number doesn't have to be restrictive, say 30 posts (to tie it in to the fishing aspect of lines are rated by the weight of the first 30 feet). "Wanted to Buy" has no restriction on number of posts, sometimes having a separate forum for buying keeps the for sale cleaner. This signature left intentionally blank.
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PYochim		#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 765 06/26/2009 06:23	I don't think an adequate number of posts guarantees the integrity of the buyer or seller. I think all of these transactions are a leap of faith. I've sold items on this forum and FAOL and have been fortunate (or lucky) to deal with honorable people. I've only been stiffed once on a purchase from a classified section on a forum (by a person with far in excess of 50 posts), so I think I've done well.
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BobS		#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1112 06/26/2009 06:46	PYochim is correct re number of posts as an indicator of reliability. My one and only bad (check) deal involved a guy with loads of posts on another forum. Eventually got $, but was a hassle involving contacts with State AG office, USPS Postal Inspection Service, etc. Perhaps more effort involved than $ warranted, but I feel one cannot let these lowlifes steal with impunity.
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mer		#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3113 06/26/2009 07:10	I wasn't trying to say there is any correlation between the number of posts and the integrity of an individual, in fact if you reread what I wrote, the number of posts pertains to the ability to post a For Sale ad. Buyers have no forum imposed restriction, but there should be nothing against a seller making that a requirement in the text of the ad. The only thing that the number of posts represents is a willingness to actually participate in the "community"; otherwise the for sale can give the appearance of Craigslist or other auction sites. This signature left intentionally blank.
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pvansch1		#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 4684 06/26/2009 09:00 Moderator	We have tossed this around in the moderators area. It's a tough thing, we can't manage it at that level. My suggestion would be to use or require PayPal. That way you are paid upfront and quickly if they are serious about buying. The I 'll take and then the checks in the mail routine happens quite often and not just here. Pete
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cwood		#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 618 06/26/2009 09:15	I've had a couple issues with folks that had very few posts, and other dealings with similar folks that went perfect. However, it does say something to have 100+ post on an open forum. I don't hesitate to send a rod to members I have chatted with in the past, or have read many of their post. I've had members send me rods before my payment even arrived just because of the trust factor involved with being a part of this community for several years. I can't say this is a good practive to get into, but goes to show that some will put a lot of trust into folks that are openly involved and don't hide behind their fake internet names. Chris Wood
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oneculm		#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 586 06/26/2009 09:38	This might not be the correct place to post this but I have thought about it often. There are page after page of praise for builders and individuals. I know we cannot bad mouth anyone and I understand,but most of us have had a bad experience with someone on the board and it is frustrating to say the least. Maybe the moderators and owners could consider a "good guy bad guy" section. If you have had a bad experience then just say you have and all inquires can be done thru PM same as classified. I doubt there are all that many "bad guys" but the few then could be pointed out without saying it in public. I know one.
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DriesVR		#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 72 06/26/2009 10:31	oneculm wrote: This might not be the correct place to post this but I have thought about it often. There are page after page of praise for builders and individuals. I know we cannot bad mouth anyone and I understand,but most of us have had a bad experience with someone on the board and it is frustrating to say the least. Maybe the moderators and owners could consider a "good guy bad guy" section. If you have had a bad experience then just say you have and all inquires can be done thru PM same as classified. I doubt there are all that many "bad guys" but the few then could be pointed out without saying it in public. I know one. I can't see that happening, mainly because there are two sides to every story. We see that all the time on the auction site that must not be named: a negative feedback and a reply that tries to explain the other side of the story, and sometimes they both make sense. I agree that probably the only way to be sure is to request PayPal as a form of payment. Also, I wouldn't take an item off of the classifieds just because of an email saying "I'll take it" from somebody I do not know. I would only do it once I get a payment or when I am dealing with somebody with whom I have at least exchanged messages or emails. Having said that, I have had anything but good experiences buying and selling stuff on the classifieds, even when a check bounced! The person took care of it and the bank fees, and apologized... hey.. sometime stuff happens. Mauro.
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rico64		#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 6 06/26/2009 10:32	I do not think the number of post are a bond sale. I not have many post and I already bought a windmill on the forum and it went well. I agree with ONECULM good guys bad guys section is a solution. someone has a 8' 4WT for sale
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Spey Salar		#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 18 06/26/2009 10:40	I concur with others that the number of posts is meaningless. I participate in several different boards, with different focuses, and while I try to contribute when I can, I don't want to just add meaningless posts just to build my posting numbers. In some cases, members with a lot of posts contribute mightely to the collective Board knowledge, others just add superfluous comments that add very little. I don't see how that establishes integrity. I've been very lucky to have both bought and sold items without mishap. I'm sorry others haven't. But surely an occasional annoyance shouldn't predudice those of us who for whatever reason haven't the required number of posts. I think that would simply clog the Board with empty posts from folks tying to build their numbers.
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jayhake		#11	[url]	[-]
Posts: 237 06/26/2009 10:51	Another thing that can help a bit is to require, or encourage, people to use their real names as their handle on the board. I belong to another board that has this policy and I think it works nicely. It encourages people to think about what they are saying and doing, because they can't hide in anonymity.
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roycestearns		#12	[url]	[-]
Posts: 166 06/26/2009 11:02	There's no perfect solution, there are always two sides to the issue, and every transaction has potential problems. We appreciate the classified section but the forum can't be the police or better biz bureau. Using PP at least puts a name and a commitment on a request to purchase.
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Battenkiller		#13	[url]	[-]
Posts: 30 06/26/2009 11:07	I am a member of several boards that range from musical instrument making to wooden boat making to fly fishing to general woodworking... you name it. On only two boards have I exceeded 50 posts. I just registered for another one last night for the express purpose of returning an item to an individual that I lost touch with and haven't seen in 20 years. My PM to him was most welcome and we now will arrange for him to get his property back. I may or may not contribute to that particular board, depending on many factors. Is it a fun place to hang out? Do I have questions that I feel may be be answered knowledgeably? Can I make a valid contribution that will add to the mix? Do I have the physical time to read a thread through and make a significant contribution? Have I lurked long enough to get a feel for the membership and its idiosyncratic rules of etiquette? I feel that if a person is accepted by a social networking group (and most boards turn out to be exactly that, no matter how focused the purpose or mission statement of the founders was at the start), he should have all of the privileges that every other member enjoys. To make rules other than that will eliminate lots of good folks that would like to join in otherwise. As far as the PM thing, I have seen it go horribly bad. Gossip is detestable to me. I have never once, on any board, used the PM solicited information from other members in a way that would lead to a negative opinion of another member. I don't do this in real life, why should I abandon my integrity on the Internet? Besides, there are very often communication problems that occur in these deals. Not everybody that you may think is a bad guy has bad intentions. Many, many times it is merely a big misunderstanding. It's a shame to get folks talking about others behind their backs just because someone got their nose out of joint in a deal. Put it out in the open, let the guy or gal have a chance to defend themselves. Even that... have I got it correct, "site that can't be mentioned"? ... allows room for a response to complaints in its feedback section. Anyway, I hope this board doesn't implement any such policies. One of the reasons I joined was to have a chance to buy a few nice rods since all my cane got sold a long time ago when I got poorer than dirt after an illness. I'm really new to this board, and I really like its "flavor", but I'd hate to have to contribute 100 posts of fluff just to get my numbers up high enough so I'm eligible for selling or purchasing in the classified section.
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WatercolorMan		#14	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1424 06/26/2009 11:23	Pete makes a good point about using paypal. Its a way of cleaning up the deal even if you don't know who your dealing with. A leap of faith at $100 is a bit easier that at $3000. Its easy to set up an account with them and both parties are protected, more or less . . . . .
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Battenkiller		#15	[url]	[-]
Posts: 31 06/26/2009 11:30	Yes, using real names is a very good policy. It brings a sense of honesty to the board. On most boards, however, I use the same screen name, even if no one there has a clue where or what the Battenkill is. The boat builders think I break lofting battens when I lay down a boat's lines. Others think it sounds ominous, like I'm some sort of deranges serial killer (or a ladykiller on this board recently), but they know who I am if they find me on another board. BTW, I almost always use my real name in the signature when I send a PM to someone.
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jz2		#16	[url]	[-]
Posts: 255 06/26/2009 11:41	getting back to the original post, I to have recently had several I'll take its from zero or 1 posters who have disappeared. one offer felt a little scammy to me. but for the most part, I've had positive experiences.
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quashnet		#17	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2640 06/26/2009 11:43 Moderatus Muscae	Let's suppose that the moderators institute a "bad' list. What would constitute "bad" behavior? Well, at the moment, the rules for posting to the Classifieds section clearly state: You must delete your own ad when the item sells, trades etc. Ads have a 2 week time limit and must be removed after that time. Failure to remove your ads in a timely manner will result in forfeit of your ability to post ads. Currently there are over four weeks' worth of ads in the Classifieds section. Are all those non-compliant sellers "bad" - or just forgetful? Maybe we should work a bit harder at complying with the few simple rules presently on the books, before setting up a whispering campaign to "out" anyone whose check hasn't arrived on the date we expected it.
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bobbeegee		#18	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2807 06/26/2009 11:54	I think these new members saying "I'll take it", require some common sense on the part of the seller. I just sold a Hardy Perfect reel to a guy on another site who was only a member of that Forum for 2 days and had zero posts. I didn't recognize his moniker, so proceeded to his profile and discovered his "newness". I communicated I didn't feel comfortable dealing with him and providing my home email address (most tactfully). He responded saying he totally understood and if he could provide proof of payment being made that day, with tracking, would I sell him the reel? Yes, I would, and did. Just put it to them (tactfully) and if you don't hear back within a few hours notify them the item has been withdrawn from sale to them. I've sold and bought items here from members in long standing and others from relatively new folks, with only one non-shipment of the item on the part of the seller (a relatively well-known one at that). Luckily it was not an item of high value, but it still galls! I was not alone in being stiffed by this fellow! The buyer is most obviously the more at risk. I guess I'm just saying the more communication between buyer and seller the better. And yes, people will say I'll take it, and then think to themselves, "what was I thinking". They are then probably too embarrassed to communicate that. So then the seller does suffer a delay in moving their item..............not much you can do about that. And yes again, the number of posts doesn't mean a whole lot in the whole scheme of buy and sell. Bob Go Heels!!! Last Edited By: bobbeegee 06/26/2009 14:08. Edited 2 times.
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tedgolden		#19	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2905 06/26/2009 12:04 Moderator	the seller does suffer And it is known that suffering may only be relieved by greater suffering! The secret to happiness is to remember what to forget.
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Ed Pirie		#20	[url]	[-]
Posts: 90 06/26/2009 12:09	You know, there are "fake sellers" too. I have bought many items through the Classifeds on this board and it has been a great experience every time. I always look here first because usually you can find something you are looking for and the sellers price very fairly in my opinion. I also bought something last year, paid for it, and have still never received it. The seller kept telling me he was with me on this one and "blah, blah, blah." Well, I got sick of telling him that the item has never showed up. I was out and I guess it is my tough luck. This has only happened once and it was for less than $100. My only point, is that sometimes there are "fake sellers" as well. And by the way, the "fake seller" I dealt with has well more than 100 posts - so go figure. Ed Pirie West Topsham, Vermont
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