Old vs. New. Bamboo vs. Graphite, Boron, & Glass. DTvs.WF. RHW vs. LHW. Broad-minded vs. Narrow-minded.

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DrakeBob	Ingrid and the Sauna or... Never Sauna Alone	#261	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1452 07/18/2009 14:38 Formerly Drake	Many years ago, a woman of my acquaintance, Ingrid, tried mightily to convince me of the therapeutic value of the sauna - both wet and dry, each having its special purposes. And just as mightily I rebuffed her case as being too heavy in anecdotal evidence and too light on science. Not to mention that Ingrid scared me a bit, quite frankly. I'm not exactly a little guy at 6'2", but Ingrid always seemed to tower over me as she'd lecture… "Bobby, you must try dis vid me. Y'ule zee… It vill do you a vorld of good. Aber, der are two tings you must alvays pay attention to… Vun, never drink und sauna, und two… never sauna alone." Then she'd give me a little wink. Still, I resisted and eventually overcame her resolve with my own and my insistence on scientific evidence to support her contention of therapeutic value while taking at least these two precautions. Well, lo and behold, long after Ingrid and I lost touch and after I had reached middle age, along came a study summarized in the March, 2008, edition of The American Journal of Forensic Medicine and Pathology, "Sauna Deaths in Sweden, 1992-2003." Here is an abstract, the emphasis is mine: Deaths from 1992 through 2003 related to sauna bathing in Sweden were collected from a national computer data base comprising all medicolegal autopsies, generating 77 cases included in this study. Of all deaths, 82% were men, most of them middle-aged. The geographic distribution seemed to be roughly related to the population density. Most bathers died on a weekend, and 84% were found dead in a sauna. In 69 cases, the blood alcohol concentration was determined; 49 (71%) of these tested positive, often with high concentrations. In 65 cases, a major disease/state that could explain death was identified; 34 (44%) of these deaths were related to alcohol and 18 (23%) cardiovascular. Other causes of death were drowning, CO poisoning, O₂ deprivation, amphetamine intoxication, and burn injuries. In 13 cases, the cause of death remained undetermined. The results indicate that sauna habits in Sweden are similar to those in Finland but probably less common. The most important risk group is middle-aged men, especially those with heavy alcohol consumption. Among the cases found dead in a sauna, all but 2 were found alone. Obviously, bathing alone is a risk factor that can easily be avoided and should perhaps be emphasized more. And so, lads, the lessons learned are these: don't drink and sauna alone; it's not just anecdotal, it's been shown. And if you ever happen to meet Ingrid, take her up on her, uh, proposition on the weight of her anecdotal accounts and well before reaching middle age. I wish I had. Oh, well. Piscator Non Solum Piscatur Last Edited By: DrakeBob 07/19/2009 09:32. Edited 3 times.
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Southbranch		#262	[url]	[-]
Posts: 445 07/18/2009 22:47	DrakeBob wrote: *Among the cases found dead in a sauna, all but 2 were found alone. Obviously, bathing alone is a risk factor that can easily be avoided and should perhaps be emphasized more.* Unless, of course, those 2 were together. And how exactly does drowning happen in a sauna?? Speaking of risk factors, doesn't the sauna ritual also involve being lashed (caned?) with birch switches and end with a dive into the nearest snowbank or lake (or do I have it confused with some other Scandinavian pass-time)?
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BlackHillsBill		#263	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2991 07/19/2009 09:18	Southbranch, the snowbank business has been overblown and can be skipped without penalty. The lashing with birch twigs is a different matter altogether and has strong proponents who refuse to let the custom go. Try to substitute aspen twigs and you'll quickly find out. Finns enjoy lashing Swedes, and they both particularly enjoy lashing Norwegians. Some think the fondness for lashing either divides or joins along gender lines. For quite a lot about the sauna does, as Bob has just proven. Buck up, Bob. You and Ingrid may not have the saunas of Sweden and Finland to warm your memories now. But you'll always have Paris. And the Ritz Hotel. And Charlie's Pezon et Michel parabolics. Moreover the sacrifices you made for pure science will not go unappreciated on this forum. By the way, if your bamboo fly rod has acquired a set, the sauna is an excellent place for repairs.
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pcg		#264	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3153 07/19/2009 09:27 Admin	In the spirit of this thread (& echoing part of the title), I posted some fly lines F/S in the classifieds yesterday. I neglected to mention whether two of the lines were DT or WF. And I immediately got a half dozen inquiries, usually going like this: "Are they DT, of course?" Of course they weren't, and I became discouraged. I edited the ad to note that they were WF. But then within another 30 minutes, I got a similar cascade of "I'll take them"s & I became curious. Clearly there's a strong division between WF & DT casters. Sunday comments?
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tedgolden		#265	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2941 07/19/2009 09:51 Moderator	Sunday comments? It's the Snodgrasses and the Swozzlers all over again with a different set of choices.
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Soft Hackle		#266	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1281 07/19/2009 13:49	My analogy was an ill-conceived attempt at a joke, thus I have deleted it, a fate I clearly see it deserved. Nothing to do with you Bill, just a silly attempt to weave DT and WF lines, Finnish saunas, snowmobiles and Bjorn Dahlie into a coherent and thoughtful comment on the direction of the thread at that point in time. A truly abysmal effort that deserved to be deleted. Last Edited By: Soft Hackle 07/19/2009 21:40. Edited 1 time.
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BlackHillsBill	I'm sorry. My bad.	#267	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2995 07/19/2009 14:19	Martin, it was a good joke. There was no reason to edit. I was happy in fact to see us get back to some foolin' and teasing. I should always be taken with a grain of salt. I liked your analogy. It was fun. I thought it freshened things up. So help me. I deleted my nonsense--which was the only part ill-conceived. Last Edited By: BlackHillsBill 07/19/2009 14:26. Edited 1 time.
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BlackHillsBill	The Real Thing	#268	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2996 07/19/2009 16:36	For those of you eager to break from usual forum fare (collecting, casting, and controlling stream crowds) but too shy to mention your urge to unearth more nitty-gritty of dry-or-wet saunas, as close to primitive Finnish saunateering as can be had on a modest travel budget is waiting for you in Northern Minnesota, Northern Wisconsin, and UP Michigan, widely renowned as America's Sauna Circuit. It would in fact be safe to say that if you never make it to Embarrass, MN, your chances for a fulfilled life will be greatly diminshed. In September DrakeBob will be presenting a peer-evaluated paper on gas-heated stones at the local Lennox dealership. There are places to fish, too, if you feel you owe it to the forum and to topicality.
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czkid	You Folks Are Hopeless....	#269	[url]	[-]
Posts: 4075 07/19/2009 18:12 Moderator	I take off for a little trip to the White River and look what happens.... total deterioration... you guys are really hopeless. It's bad enough having to deal with Short Tip (did his girl friend give him that name???) but then to have you deviants track off course again makes me shake my head in sorrow. No discipline at all here... BHB, how did you ever control a classroom??? This would never do at a good engineering school. As to Stubby's (excuse me... Short Tip's) comment vis a vis parabolics, I guess that's why the price of things PHY are so low these days.... Paul's rods were really powerful in the parabolic sense and the English ones that I cast are perhaps a bit more delicate. I will say that, my limited experience with Ritz rods tends to lead me to the opinion that they were primarily designed for dry fly work... but that's maybe just the 4 or 5 examples I've cast. Hopefully this will get things back on track and away from the vagrancy's of Saunas... on a fly fishing forum no less. Tsk, tsk. Ralph
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DrakeBob		#270	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1454 07/20/2009 00:29 Formerly Drake	BlackHillsBill wrote: In September DrakeBob will be presenting a peer-evaluated paper on gas-heated stones at the local Lennox dealership. I'll post it here first for general comments and for your help, Bill, with grammar and syntax. Here's fair warning, though: it is shaping up to be rather lengthy given the scope of the topic and my coverage of it is exhaustive. Stay tuned. Piscator Non Solum Piscatur
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BlackHillsBill	Bob's Forthcoming Paper on Gas-Heated Sauna Stones	#271	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2997 07/20/2009 08:04	Several Minnesotans have already told me they feel it will be the defining moment of their autumn. Heretofore it was waiting for the lake to freeze over. Gas-heated stones, they said, will save them for other activities, about which they were quite vague. But, if you know these Northern Minnesota Finns, you feel certain there's an outside chance that those activities could include bamboo fly rod fishing. The Lennox man, who's a dead ringer for Dave (not our Dave, Lennox's), can hardly contain his enthusiasm. This is cutting-edge stuff. Last Edited By: BlackHillsBill 07/20/2009 08:16. Edited 2 times.
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greg hall		#272	[url]	[-]
Posts: 278 07/20/2009 15:03	DrakeBob wrote: BlackHillsBill wrote: In September DrakeBob will be presenting a peer-evaluated paper on gas-heated stones at the local Lennox dealership. I'll post it here first for general comments and for your help, Bill, with grammar and syntax. Here's fair warning, though: it is shaping up to be rather lengthy given the scope of the topic and my coverage of it is exhaustive. Stay tuned. No doubt that if you had accepted Ingrid's invitation and were to include an account of that in your upcoming paper your treatise you would be sure to have a best seller. Cold winters, the fragrance of the cedar walls, steam rising from the hot rocks and Ingrid - all the pieces would be in place. Just the thing to keep those Finns and Bill awake in their easy chairs waiting for the ice to thaw so they can go fly fishing with their English & French parabolic rods.
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BlackHillsBill		#273	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3000 07/20/2009 20:57	Greg, you know how the wags can be when they latch onto something even as innocent and uplifting as Bob's struggle to remain steadfast in the scientific method, even in the sauna. Nevertheless, this thread has received several reports recently that Ingrid will be running the Sauna Beer and Tee-Shirt Concession at the Lennox dealership where DrakeBob is scheduled to present his paper on gas-heated stones. It's probably only rumor, but suppose . . . No, no, that would be too terrible. To be set up with a second round, so to speak, of heartbreak. Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, she walks into . . .
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pcg		#274	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3168 07/20/2009 21:08 Admin	And with that final sentence ("Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, she walks in..."), BHB wrote the first sentence of his new novella. Sweet. The illustrator will be, of course... DrakeBob, who has taken up watercolors and is studying Art with... Ingrid (of course). Publisher shall be... WhiteFish Press, whose owner has been secretly (& avidly) following the building tension in this very thread!
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greg hall		#275	[url]	[-]
Posts: 280 07/20/2009 21:17	Yes, Bob struggling to maintain a scientific objective opinion, I can feel his pain even as my mind conjures visions of Ingrid steaming amongst the gas fired rocks while Bob himself positively writhes with the effort to stay focused on his higher calling. BTW, rumor has it that our friend oneculm recommends those European/Anglo parabolics as terrific ice fishing poles. Good news for the Finns as they can now use them year round.
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Southbranch		#276	[url]	[-]
Posts: 446 07/21/2009 01:16	greg hall wrote: BTW, rumor has it that our friend oneculm recommends those European/Anglo parabolics as terrific ice fishing poles. Good news for the Finns as they can now use them year round. Indeed, more than a few bamboo tip sections have ended up jerking perch though holes in the ice of Wisconsin.
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DrakeBob		#277	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1461 07/21/2009 07:15 Formerly Drake	Late last night, while deep in research on the fascinating subject of gas-heated lava rocks for the sauna, I stumbled across the concept of gas-fired charcoal. I thought back to my Versus (after all, the subject of this thread): "gas or charcoal?" "Eureka!" I thought... why does it have to be one or the other? Why not both? I'm abandoning my research on gas-heated lava rocks to pursue a subject near and dear to my heart and a most practical consideration - food. My, how our priorities change in life. Piscator Non Solum Piscatur
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BlackHillsBill	And so as the sun rises slowly but not too reluctantly	#278	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3001 07/21/2009 08:54	over UP Michigan, Northern Wisconsin, and Northern Minnesota, the cultural epicenter of saunateering, we complete our pursuit of of this invigorating ritual--another feature of the byroads too often overlooked but readily available to ardent bamboo fly rod fishermen who look around them while resting from piscatorial labors. It is possile, we realize, that you could have figured out a better and happier denouement for DrakeBob's study of gas-heated stones. We couldn't. I'm taking a brief sabbatical from this thread to do necessary things, such as watch the Twins drop games by 14-13 scores, polish reels and rods, tie a few flies, ponder places and ways of doing which, with any luck at all and just a little care, should endure for a few more generations. I also plan to enroll in a remedial proofreading course. Last Edited By: BlackHillsBill 07/21/2009 09:09. Edited 3 times.
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Old Baleine		#279	[url]	[-]
Posts: 13 07/21/2009 10:38	Thanks for the brilliant thread, gentlemen. It's been a delight to follow from the sideline.
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Old vs. New. Bamboo vs. Graphite, Boron, & Glass. DTvs.WF. RHW vs. LHW. Broad-minded vs. Narrow-minded.

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