Yuku free message boards

Riverflogg....

The space behind the hook eye was for the leader Turle knot, a common knot used back in the era of the early tiers. I get into the Turle knot space in the book. Rube Cross and other early tyers like the Dettes, Darbees, Steenrod, Mahlon Davidson, etc. sport the traditional turle knot space, and you'll see the space, too, in my dry flies.

The space was a common knot for dry flies 100 years ago, and Theodore Gordon even admitted the fact in his writings. (However, he didn't like that knot himself and he stated that fact. There was another knot Gordon used-- Gordon used a strange outside figure 8 knot created by Frank Wemyss)

I asked Walt about the Turle Knot space more than once when I was kid--1969 era. Harry Darbee mentioned that when upright wings are set back a bit on the hook shank, which in turn can leave a bit of bare space behind the hook eye, a better center of gravity is created. However, that's not why the space was originally created behind the hook eye. It was for the Turle knot.
The 1930's Dette brochure (Dry Fly catalog) states that the fly was tied set back to avoid leader chafffing (gut leader). Never once did Walt say anything about COG when initially asked him about the small amount of clean bare hook behind the eye. Many years after the first time I annoyed him with the question, I also asked him about Harry's comment about improving the center of gravity by setting the wings back posteriorly on the hook shank. Given the towering wings of many Catskill style dry flies, it would stand to reason setting them back on the shank would alter the COG. (Setting the wings back posteriorly on the hook shank would, of course, result ending short when tying the fly head thus leaving a little space).
He said maybe setting the wings back on the hook shank, and thus ending short behind the hook eye with a left over space, improves COG, but he insisted that was not the reason the space was created: it was to accomodate a Turle knot. (The other fact is even on wingless Rube Cross, Dette and Darbee dry flies you'll find the turle knot space...the COG gravity theory would certainly seem less of an issue, in that instance--but that little space was intentionally left anyway

The only other comment he added was that they tied the fly that way because when they dissected Rube Cross' flies to learn his secrets of fly construction (in late 1927) that's how Cross did it (and thus that's the way the then Winnie Ferdon, Walt, and Harry continued the practice that characteristic). You will often see the space missing, though, in some flies. Rube Cross was big on the space, and you'll see it in some Steenrod flies, too as well as in the flies crafted by others of the Catskill school. Ray Smith examples usually came right up to the hook eye with no space. But many have said he included the small space, too, here and there. Christian had the space. Mahlon Davidson did, too.

If you see the space in Flick flies it is unintentional: he just came up a little short in tying the head because that's where he ended--sometimes a little short. Flick flies almost always sport a larger, bullet shaped head, which is characteristic of his flies, without the space. I asked Flick about the space, too, decades ago.


The odd thing is, and I also asked Walt about another point maybe 38-40 years ago still as a kid then...a sometimes annoying kid!! "Walt", I asked..."Then why don't your wet flies ever show that little space behind the hook eye?". His Answer: "I think it's time for Dinner and lets head into the kitchen"....

Mary shoots for the space but occasionally she come up to the hook eye, and she feels its of no consequence. But Walt was big on it, thus so am I. Old habits are hard to break!

You can read about that little space in the book....

MV