Fishing is Hunting

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mac7x	Fishing is Hunting		Lead	[-]
Posts: 884 07/10/2009 11:30	Tags : None Different quarry, different tools, but otherwise, no essential differences. Whether we care to admit it or not, fishing is a blood sport. Even catch and release fishing. I am aware of no study that suggests a mortality rate of zero in c & r fishing. And guns, long or short, like fly rods, are just tools, inherently neither good nor evil. And I would think that a bamboo fly rod "nut" should be able to empathize with a "gun nut", even if he does not share his passion. I'm well aware that I'm not the best person to express these sentiments, but I thought that someone should.
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bluejayee		#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 811 07/10/2009 11:41	Hi Guys, I once attended a two day 'school' with the late great Ernie Schwiebert. The first day was a lecture and the very first words he said were, "Fishing is hunting." He then described the stealth and caution aspect of fishing and went on from there. So yeah, and it's a blood sport. Read a little Gordon Wickstrom he's one [of many other] writers that appreciate that fact. Jay Edwards
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FWdB		#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 487 07/10/2009 13:21	There's hunting aspects in fishing, just as there's hunting aspects in photography, bird watching or stamp collecting. But they aren't the same. I agree that fishing could be considered a blood sport. Fish don't like being caught, they could be wounded, end up stressed or even die unintendedly or on purpose when the catch is killed for food. But there's no such thing as catch and release when it comes to hunting with a gun. With guns there's also the potential / realistic possibility of them being used in an act of violence against something or somebody else than the quarry. So I'm sorry, I simply can't see the parallel between gun nuts and boo nuts. Wilfred de Bruijn The Lowlands Of Holland
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North country brookie		#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 93 07/10/2009 13:58	I can see the parallel between the two. There are times when I am as focused on stealthily sneaking up on a feeding trout, waiting for the right moment to try and land my fly as gracefully as I can in front of the rise as I am sitting in a tree stand, trying to be quiet and still, waiting for the movement in the brush in front of me to materialize into a buck.... Lately, though, I see a parellel between the two through the tools of our pursuit. The time spent in the field, and the memories they bring back. I remember the time I caught the brook trout from under the overhanging hemlock on my Heddon, the time my soft hackle enticed a big brown to strike hard enough to straighten my arm... the same way that when I carry my old Ithaca Model 37 pump I think of being 12, and shooting a gray squirrel with my grandfather at my side, and holding his 1892 Winchester rifle, thinking about him shooting his first buck with the gun. Wishing he was still around to hear his stories about Red, the fox hound, remembering tagging along and trying to stay awake while Rocky his coon hound bayed in the distance on a cold November night under the full moon. Those, to me, are the greatest things I will ever be given from the act of fishing or hunting. The connection to times, and memories, and people.
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greg hall		#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 266 07/10/2009 14:05	In regard to the hunting aspect I will grant there is some reasonable parallel but I think you have missed the gist of some of the recent discussions involving carrying guns while fishing. I may be wrong but I don't recall anyone expressing much concern about someone owning and carrying guns for hunting and or self protection in the wild. But back to your comparison, a gun is a lethal weapon whereas a fishin' pole ain't though I suppose a stout 8 weight with a bank spear on the butt might be considered to have some potential for being used to harm another.
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Boo.fiberglassflyro...		#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 176 07/10/2009 14:08	In fishing the prey/fish COMES TO the fly. They're LOOKING for it. In hunting the bullet GOES TO the game/prey. They try to GET AWAY from it. I might add that with fishing your actually 'connected' to the prey via the line, you can feel it. No such thing with hunting. Last Edited By: Boo 07/10/2009 14:14. Edited 1 time.
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North country brookie		#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 94 07/10/2009 14:37	Boo - I think there are some great similarities in turkey hunting and duck hunting - where you are calling, and using decoys to entice the quarry to come to you. In both fly fishing and those types of hunting you are trying to imitate the object of the fish's/game's desire (food or companionship) in order to fool them into "coming to you". Not exactly the same, but very similar.
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Finn		#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 74 07/10/2009 18:21	Dead is Dead. Not everyone releases every fish. Not every released fish survives. How can keeping a Salmon, Bass, Trout or whatever not be considered a blood sport? We all come from a long line of successful hunters.
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Short Tip		#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1178 07/10/2009 18:38 Moderator	Fishing is Hunting Good point. Let's talk some more about fishing, with bamboo fly rods, OK?
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BlackHillsBill	Trout Hunter	#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2950 07/10/2009 19:20	For a sensitive perspective on this subject, you might want to read Rene Harrop's Trout Hunter, the Preface of which explains the title. I won't try to summarize, for his very thoughtful writing is from the point of view of one whose ancestry is split between Anglo-American and indigenous people, one who has known from early on hunting animals and fishing as essential pursuits for the family table, one who knows now that the reality of the time which allowed liberal harvest of wildlife for the generations preceding his own has passed and changed, but also one who says, "I remain to this day a hunter . . . The intellectual rules I apply to finding and approaching a trout vary only slightly from those applied in the pursuit of land-based animals." That's just a little taste of as striking an analysis of the topic of this thread as you'll find anywhere by a man who hunts with arrows and with fly rods. Rene Harrop's book, it should be added, discusses his tactics for fishing The Henry's Fork and gives formulas for what are some of the most effective flies ever devised for that water. It's probably worth consideration that the feathers and fur of Rene Harrop's flies and of our own have come from quite an array of wild and tame birds and mammals. The practice seldom gives us pause whether we're involved in this aspect of our sport as a consumer or provider or both. The point of view of indigenous peoples superimposed on our own can cause a beneficial rethinking of our sport and a deeper appreciation for the privilege of engaging in it. We won't end up any less "high-minded" for it either, but maybe we'll be a bit less full of ourselves. One could do far worse than to be a hunter of trout, especially as Rene Harrop does it. And my judgment is that it's at its very best when done with a bamboo fly rod. Last Edited By: BlackHillsBill 07/10/2009 19:24. Edited 1 time.
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kimk		#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 682 07/10/2009 19:27	Both activities require the same attitudes, same aptitudes, same skill sets. Both are probably driven by instincts developed for millions of years. If you hunted, fished and gathered and you did it well, you might survive. Most of mankind lived this way as recently as a few thousand years ago. We are the children of those successful hunter gatherers. On stream or in the field, we are tapping into instincts that are as old as mankind and as old as the instincts that drive our quarry. At their root, they are the same primal activity. AgMD
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Short Tip		#11	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1179 07/10/2009 19:48 Moderator	OK, I tried a gentle approach a few posts back. Was my post not clear enough?
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creakycane		#12	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2255 07/10/2009 20:13	When you have a nice fish up on the surface, feeding on duns - and you work a fly to a particular fish to try to imitate a dun - it certainly has elements of the hunt. Chuck it and chance it, less so - nothing like sight fishing.
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slate river		#13	[url]	[-]
Posts: 113 07/10/2009 20:44	I very much agree as the stalking aspect of fishing to selective rising wild trout is very much like the stalking aspect of hunting wild game. For me personally this is what I find to be the most challenging and rewarding aspects of trout fishing Bob
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BlackHillsBill		#14	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2951 07/10/2009 21:11	Short Tip wrote: "OK, I tried a gentle approach a few posts back. Was my post not clear enough?" _____________________________________________________________________________ Earlier you said, "Let's talk some more about fishing, with bamboo fly rods, OK?" _____________________________________________________________________________ If it's your intention to make that the primary requirement for every post in the Ephemera Section, you'll be weeding out a number of threads. I'd be happy to see the sections on Collecting Bamboo Rods and Fishing Bamboo Rods return to their original and primary topics. But in the past few weeks there have been posts on favorite graphite rods, on the virtue of one material or another over bamboo, and of how snooty it is that some here seem to champion a plutocracy of top-dollar bamboo fly rod fishers who neglect and even snub those of less means (a poor college student wading in his tennies and using a "dime store" rod, for example). All of that was tolerated without a murmur. There was a thread in this section only recently closed (either because it became too personal or over- populated with centerfolds, but which nevertheless was allowed to continue through over 6,000 viewings with its main subject being armed protection against two-leggeds when one is fishing. Nothing in whatever policy was being applied in these cases could be called "clear." "Ambivalent" seems less a stretch, in fact, than "tolerant." I don't see why a thread on parallels between hunting and fishing, with regard to tactics and philosophy, should not be tolerated under such circumstances. I don't see either how my post on Rene Harrop's book Trout Hunting or other posts on those parallels are offensive. The danger of offense is not in the topic but in those who wish to make it a platform for personal debate about what constitutes nutty behavior. It's clear that you mean, gently, we should be talking about fishing bamboo fly rods, nothing more or less. I'll take that as my marching orders hereafter: fishing bamboo, collecting bamboo, and nothing but bamboo will be my order of the day. Not one more post to the thread I started to show how far adrift current discussions had become. Deal? Last Edited By: BlackHillsBill 07/10/2009 21:15. Edited 1 time.
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stickleyboy		#15	[url]	[-]
Posts: 44 07/10/2009 21:30	I think Short Tip just meant that we shouldn't fight the Culture Wars on the Forum, not that we couldn't stray from Cane orthodoxy. I agree, but I wish this principle could be member rather than moderator enforced. More on topic, I had a good day on Monday, perhaps 10 fish. And I had to step out of the river to let 3 canoes pass, each with a spinfisherman. Each asked me about my luck with weary frustration in their voices, looking for commiseration. When I told them, "Great fishing!", each looked at me like in disbelief. Now, I had seen them chunking spinners into flat water upstream, and it was pretty clear to me why they hadn't had a bite. They weren't hunting. Last Edited By: stickleyboy 07/10/2009 21:39. Edited 1 time.
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Short Tip		#16	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1180 07/10/2009 21:32 Moderator	No, Bill, I'm not taking issue with your posts or any of the other thoughtful posts in this thread. What I am taking issue with is the fact that the thread, from it's inception, is another attempt to open up a discussion of firearms, which I find unwise. I think you've read enough of my posts to know I rarely stick to just fishing. But I also know better than to open up issues which I know will lead to arguing our differences, rather than exploring our common ground. And I'm weary of others doing it, or attempting to do so.
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BlackHillsBill		#17	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2952 07/10/2009 22:07	Thank you, Short Tip. That clears the air a lot, and I'm obliged. I realize that firearms can be a sensitive topic. But my reading of what Mac said was he believed a more productive approach would be to find those "common grounds," which you mentioned, between hunting and fishing. I don't see it as an attempt to raise the ghosts of inflammatory past discussions. Mac simply doesn't operate that way, and there is no reason the rest of us should either. I realize the timing of the two could be a problem. Shouldn't be, but could be. And so "unwise" it could very well be.
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Short Tip		#18	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1181 07/10/2009 22:13 Moderator	Understood, which is why I took a nudging approach. I wasn't really taking any individual to task, but it's in topics like these where some members always manage to show their ass.
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greg hall		#19	[url]	[-]
Posts: 267 07/11/2009 00:03	Well I've always been a butt man myself. One of those who finds the gracefully swelled butt of a Heddon or Thomas and Thomas most comely. I've also read that asses are also better pack animals than horses for those back country hunting trips. Did I cover all the asspects of things? (groan)
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mac7x		#20	[url]	[-]
Posts: 885 07/11/2009 00:29	Actually, it was an attempt to provoke tolerance. Perhaps I'm overly sensitive, but it seemed to me that there have been posts on a couple of topics recently that could be characterised as "pot shots", if you will forgive the expression, aimed at hunters, guns, and their owners. I was merely trying to show that fishermen and hunters, and the collectors of the implements of these pursuits, have more in common than some of us seem to think.
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