Two projects I completed this summer have led to me to wonder about designated lines weights and how they might be affected by the use of truncated
ferrules. Both of these Garrison tapers are designated as "crossovers", meaning they are listed as two different line weights, depending on the
source.
The first rod completed was a Garrison 193, which is list as a 3 or 4 weight. The second rod completed was a Garrison 201 (which was built because I was so
pleased with the 193, and it was, after all, Garry's favorite taper). The 201 is listed as a 4 weight or 5 weight, depending on the source. Both rods have
a similar buttery smooth action and both cast decidedly better with the lighter of the two line designation, the 193 better with a 3 weight DT Sylk and the 201
better with a 4 weight DT Sylk. Both rods were built with truncated ferrules. I wonder how much the truncated ferrules contributed to the fact that the rods
cast much better with the lighter of the two line designations?
joel
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Truncated ferrules and designated line weight
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 Joel Anderson |
Truncated ferrules and designated line weight |
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Posts: 125 09/03/2009 19:45 |
Last Edited By: Joel Anderson 09/03/2009 19:47.
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canerodscom |
#1 | |||
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Posts: 2267 09/03/2009 21:55 Bamboo preacher |
Joel,
I would suspect just the opposite. By virtue of being shorter, truncated ferrules are lighter. Therefore there is less "swing weight" on the rod. I would expect the rod to be a little more friendly with the heavier lines. Just my $.02, Harry |
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Joel Anderson |
#2 | |||
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Posts: 126 09/03/2009 22:06 |
I thought about the swing weight factor as well, Harry, but then I thought a shorter ferrule might make the rod less "stiff" at the ferrule station?
Maybe the two factors counter balance each other...
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canerodscom |
#3 | |||
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Posts: 2268 09/03/2009 22:11 Bamboo preacher |
That could easily be the case Joel. I have used very few truncated ferrules, so speak mostly from my thoughts rather than experiences. Unless you changed the
tapers for truncated ferrules, it seems like the flat spot, or stiff spot, in the center of the rod would only be 1/2" or so shorter.
Harry |
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Tom Smithwick |
Garrison 193 and 201 | #4 | ||
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Posts: 531 09/04/2009 13:49 |
Joel - I like these tapers a lot, and have built several. The 193 is a three weight, and the 201 is a 4 weight. Using a truncated ferrule improves the
performance of medium progressive tapers like these. The more weight you can keep off the blank, the more line it will cast. I personally feel that the weight
of the ferrule is worse than the flat spot in terms of performance, but not everyone will agree.
Ya done good! Enjoy the rods. Either taper would make a great one piece rod, BTW |
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TXTrout |
#5 | |||
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Posts: 262 09/04/2009 14:44 |
My 2 cents worth.
Most of my rods are 3pc versions (variants) of what where originally 2 pc slower progressive rods. I notice a greater difference in the rod between a full sized SS and a truncated SS than I do between a normal Step Down (SD) and a truncated SS. I still use TSS, but prefer the look of the Step Down. I would never use a full sized SS on a multi piece rod, do to both function and form.
As for the tapers you used, I agree with Tom, I like both of them. However I consider the 193 a 4wt and the 201 a 4/5 wt. But the next paragraph explains this.
This whole discussion on the line weight of a rod is often very dependant as to the cane treatment (flamed, blond or heavy tempered) and the type of glue (titebond, Epon, other) used. I have found that the cane treatment and glue has more to do with the difference in the feel (line weight and/or crispness) of a rod than the type of ferrule used. There is also personal preference.
Robert.
"Some paths are best not taken alone" John W. Barfield |
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 oneculm |
#6 | |||
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Posts: 633 09/04/2009 17:08 |
Have any of you actually weighed the difference between the two? I do not use the truncated ferrules or I would do it. I would guess it would be in fractions
of an ounce.
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canerodscom |
#7 | |||
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Posts: 2270 09/04/2009 17:32 Bamboo preacher |
oneculm,
I have not weighed the different ferrules, but it stands to reason that since truncated ferrules are 1/3 shorter that they should weight 1/3 less than standard length ferrules. I make my own stepped ferrules and usually make the female shorter than those available commercially. They're still not what we might call truncated, but are shorter. For example, my size 13 female ferrules are only 2" long. Harry |
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mer |
#8 | |||
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Posts: 3204 09/04/2009 17:48 |
Longitudinally challenged ferrules?
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Larry Swearingen |
#9 | |||
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Posts: 419 09/04/2009 18:04 |
Does that mean that Brett Reiter is a "Truncated" rodmaker ?
Larry Swearingen New Hoosier |
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oneculm |
#10 | |||
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Posts: 634 09/04/2009 19:46 |
Just did a little checking Mr Boyd and all the female # 13 ferrules I looked at from three different very well known makers of ferrules all measured 2". I
will have to go thru all my junk to find a truncated set to check if they are 1/3 shorter.
Last Edited By: oneculm 09/04/2009 20:27.
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canerodscom |
#11 | |||
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Posts: 2271 09/04/2009 21:52 Bamboo preacher |
Hmm,
I thought that the CSE step-down females measured about 2 1/4". Guess I'm wrong. Thanks for setting me straight. Harry |
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oneculm |
#12 | |||
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Posts: 635 09/04/2009 22:33 |
I did not say CSE so you are probably correct about them. It really makes no difference , whatever works use it.
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quadrate |
#13 | |||
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Posts: 107 09/05/2009 03:57 |
I have used both standard and truncated ferrules. The standard ferrule definitely keeps a rod stiffer. Classic tapers should be built with similar length
ferrules (I believe same style as well) if you want the rod to have the same action. If you use the truncated ones the rod will slow down a little bit,
sometimes making it smoother to cast. It can drop the rod a line weight as well. No theory here, this is from the empirical process. Make the rod and try
and then you know for sure.
Look at some of the rods that Brandin and Wojnicki make and use the "micro-ferrule". They are usually medium in action and very delicate. I often use a full size ferrule to keep the stiffness in the rod at that point. Tim Zietak |
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Joel Anderson |
#14 | |||
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Posts: 128 09/05/2009 06:20 |
"If you use the truncated ones the rod will slow down a little bit, sometimes making it smoother to cast. It can drop the rod a line weight as well."
Great stuff, Tim. Thanks for the input. It certainly was confirmed by my experience. Theory is one thing, but real world experience speaks volumes, IMO. That's exactly my findings with these two rods. Although I certainly don't have original garrison with which to compare, I can't imagine a smoother rod action than what these two rods possess. Tom Morgan is a big fan of eliminating as much weight as possible from the rod: Light wire guides; light wire tip tops; truncated ferrules; no hook keepers; hollow-built blanks; light reel seats. I'm starting to see why... |
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TXTrout |
#15 | |||
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Posts: 263 09/05/2009 07:57 |
Joel,
I do agree with Tim on the classic tapers. If the original rod used standard step downs, using truncated ferrules will change the feel of the rod, sometimes dramatically. The old timers accounted for the ferrule in the action. I too have learned this from experiments. On my own rods, most where designed to use a truncated ferrule and are of the slow moderate type. If I want them to be faster, I will use a standard SD in place or a truncated SS. I've seen older classics (3pc) built with standard SS and they can jump up close to a line weight due to the stiffer ferrule area. The best way to decide if you like a taper best with one type of ferrule or the other is to build two of the same taper with the same culm, same glue, same heat treatment and see what you like the best. To me a smoother action rod would be a Howells. I also agree with taking weight out when possible. I guess now you understand why when you ask the line weight of a taper, you get a bunch of answers 
Robert.
"Some paths are best not taken alone" John W. Barfield |
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brooke777 |
Conversions from standard to truncated ferrules | #16 | ||
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Posts: 60 09/05/2009 09:56 |
Hi,
I have been making standard length ferrules and am wondering if anyone has a conversion table or method for getting to truncated sizes? I doubt it, but is it as easy as reducing dimensions by similar percentages? |
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Tom Smithwick |
Ferrule design | #17 | ||
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Posts: 532 09/22/2009 10:38 |
I'm writing an article for The Planing Form on this topic. The basic decision is the length of the male slide. I have seen slides as long as 4 times the
diameter of the slide. but I think a good standard is 3X diameter. I make my truncated versions with a 2.5X diameter slide. The shorter you make the slide, the
more critical a good sliding fit becomes, otherwise the ferrule won't last long. I've heard of 2X diameter slides being used, but the fit has to be
perfect, and I'm just not that good yet. The overall length of my male truncated ferrules is 4.5X diameter of the slide, and the females are sized to
generally match that. I have a dimensioned drawing of a #14 truncated ferrule if anyone is interested.
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