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 aguafriarods |
Taper Recommendation for Tournament Casting |
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Posts: 30 10/20/2009 12:31 |
I'm looking for some taper recommendations for a rod to use for ACA sanctioned tournament casting. The event is the 5 weight combined accuracy and
distance. The line used must be a WF5F. The accuracy part has targets at 20 to 50+ feet, the distance part self explanatory. I was thinking of a rod around
8'. I'd be open to any action type - para, semi-para, progressive. Oh, and graphite is not an option.
TIA, Bill |
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bbamboo |
#1 | |||
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Posts: 235 10/23/2009 03:51 |
To be honest there is not any.
If you want to compete with the carbon rod boys that is I would not try to go down this road, as the end result would be practically unusable. As a standard go to rod. In the end there is good and bad points for and against bamboo. Unfortunately tournament distance casting is not one of them. But good luck with it. Gary
www.nichobamboorods.com
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aguafriarods |
Not just distance and 5 weight too | #2 | ||
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Posts: 33 10/23/2009 12:34 |
Nah, I don't buy that Gary, at least not in this application. The game is 5 Weight Combination Accuracy and Distance. I believe that bamboo
would be more accurate than the overly fast graphite rods of today. Per Brandin makes a bamboo rod for Trout Fly Accuracy competition. I think that speaks
volumes. And I have to believe that there's a taper out their somewhere that will cast a WF5F far enough to compete, at least within my local club.
Dennis Stone (tapermaker here) suggested the Kushner Formula B taper which, from what I've heard, will be a good suggestion once I adjust the line load.
And of course working on improving the design would be fun.
Bill
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bbamboo |
#3 | |||
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Posts: 237 10/23/2009 13:17 |
Hi Bill
What distances are we talking about here? At a recent meeting here in the Uk we had a bamboo rod, which cast 120 feet But it was not something you would want to fish with believe me. But please keep me posted if you find anything always intrested in stuff like this. Good luck. GARY
www.nichobamboorods.com
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aguafriarods |
#4 | |||
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Posts: 34 10/23/2009 16:08 |
Hi Gary, For the accuracy part of the event, the targets are set from 20' to 50' away, with a bonus target set further away based on the level of competition (60-80'). In terms of the distance portion, I referred to the results of a tournament that took place last year. Steve Rajeef was the winner of the 5 weight combined - his two best distance casts came to an average of 108'. But that was Rajeef. The meer mortals were hitting 80-90'. Bill |
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bbamboo |
#5 | |||
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Posts: 238 10/25/2009 07:18 |
Hi Bill I think 80 to 90 are well within reach is conditions are ideal. It's like all rods the secret to good distance casting is the rod has to be suited to your own casting ability. There is not point in using a pool cue if you cannot bend it. I would stay clear of very fast action rods as this increased the butt dia dramatically. But places massive stress loads on the tip sections. You can up the tip dia to reduce the stress levels but then the rod is no longer a true 5wt Progressive or Parabolic would be my way of thinking, taking the stress loading to other thicker parts of the rod would be a good idea. And staying within the rods designated line parameters. You wont get it right first time so good luck with the project. Love to see some video of the rods in action
Gary
www.nichobamboorods.com
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bamboorods |
Tapers for tournament casting | #6 | ||
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Posts: 289 10/27/2009 13:35 |
It is only a suggestion but you might start by gettin g a hold of a copy of Earl Ostens fine book "Tournament fly and bait casting" publ. by A.S.
Barnes in 1946. All of the events are covered and there are several tapers listed. Some of them are stated in thousands and several are registered in
64's of an inch. The way they used to do it!
Wet fly accuracy, Dry fly accuracy,Skish fly event,Trout fly distance,Salmon fly distance are all covered. My father was a tournament caster in the 30's and 40's along with "Dike" Harold Smedley, Ed Swett and John Emory. I still have all his rods. All custom Leonards and one custom Montague. They had three rods built built for the troutfly distance event that were hollowed after Montague gave up the ghost. My father used a 8 1/2 ' Heddon Model 50 President for the shisk fly event which I still fish. For years I have tried to purchase old tournament rods but I have never seen any for sale. Do have the taper somewhere that Paul Young made for his next door neihbor. It was a trout distance rod and a real wrist breaker. Owned by a friend of mine that purchased it from that persons widow, years ago. Good luck on your quest. Bamboorods
Last Edited By: bamboorods 10/27/2009 13:53.
Edited 1 time.
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Short Tip |
#7 | |||
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Posts: 1309 10/30/2009 11:51 Moderator |
The "5 weight game" is a new event for the ACA, it's basically an outgrowth of the old "Skish" event. Both are designed to emulate
"real world" conditions with "real world" tackle. There's no reason at all not to compete in this event with a cane rod. You'll
want the longest practical length you can handle, with an action that suits your style. Concentrate on the accuracy portion of the event. This event is
designed to bring new people into tournament casting, using their "favorite rod".
"When all the rods and a lot of reels, lines, leader boxes, et cetera, had been sold, the gang paid at the cashier's
window for what they'd bought and then made a bee line for the rug room to test their rods. I put mine together, tested it for a moment or so, and then
started to show it to men I knew. Not a man was interested in my rod. They all, without a single exception, tried to get me to look at theirs. Extraordinary,
how self centered most men are. Have you noticed it? "
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thousandstar |
#8 | |||
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Posts: 229 10/31/2009 12:39 |
Watch this!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIG8aBEif3I |
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16 pmd |
#9 | |||
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Posts: 772 11/01/2009 01:16 |
I'd say the choice of rod depends a lot on the scoring system. If the accuracy portion of the event is a higher part of the score, I'd go with a fast
taper 8 1/2-9' rod and definitely a progressive taper. A rod that swings a lot from the butt (e.g. parabolic) will not track as well as one with a butt
that stays pretty much rigid because a slight miscue on your forward stroke will cause the entire rod to come through farther off line. Virtually all
tournament casters use fast rods for accuracy events, whether they be graphite or bamboo, because of the more precise tracking and accuracy. If the distance
portion is more important, a rod that bends well down into the butt would be OK. In either case I'd choose a rod that does not have a light tip. Overall,
I'd probably choose a progressive rod with a strong butt and fairly fast taper.
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aguafriarods |
Thanks for the input | #10 | ||
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Posts: 35 11/05/2009 12:12 |
Short Tip - I think you're on the money, especially about using the longest practical length I can handle and concentrating on the accuracy portion
(double the scoring potential of the distance part). Since I've always been a short rod guy, I'm going to start out with something around 8'
(that'd be a looong rod to me). I'm planing strips now for a one tip rod that's going to be a Young Perfectionist tweaked to a WF5 and stretched
to 7'9". After that, I'm thinking about the Kushner Formula B again tweaked to take a WF5 and reduced to 8' or maybe a Dickerson 8013
derivative. I'll see where those take me.
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WatercolorMan |
#11 | |||
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Posts: 1524 11/10/2009 06:19 |
I just had an article out about E.C. Powells son Buddy Powell in 1936 setting the world record for distance in San Jose at 167'-10" shattering the old
mark of 147'
This was in 1936 and buddys rod was Hollow Built and was 5 3/4 oz in 1998 Press Powell was the proud owner of the most cherished rods in his collection. The artical I read didn't say the length or taper of the rod. Now the his brother Walt and nephew are gone it may be hard to find out more details. You could contact Jack L. Parker and see if he still has a copy of the article that ran in the Marysville Appeal Democrat in 1936 about Buddy. There was also an artical in the San Francisco Examiner by J.P. Cuenin covering Buddy Powell's record, Cuenin was also a world class tournament fly caster. As a side note Buddy died soon after in a car crash as I recall. I may have some notes If I can find them from Walt that provides some more details on the subject of the rod design. Good luck on your selection of a rod, sounds like fun. |
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Dewardian |
Tournament rods | #12 | ||
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Posts: 106 11/13/2009 15:24 |
A few thouhts and considerations for you.
At the Catskill Bamboo rod makers gathering the last three years there has been a bamboo rod challenge..... The winning rod is determined by the total distance cast by the same casters. The first year was for a #5. The results where published in the Planing Form, and if memory serves correctly the longest cast was about 90'. There was a further restriction in how much the rod could way. (3.5 ozs? max). The longest rods have not necessarily been the winners in any year. I have Chris Bogarts 8'3" #5 entry and it will fish near or further than I can see a fly. Dick Fujita has made his own rods out of bamboo and regularly competes at the Golden Gate casting club competions. I believe he sometimes wins the events that he competes in, I would guess that Dick is north of seventy years old, and weighs about as much as a jockey after a big dinner. So it is not mass that makes for the casting expertise. I think size/strength is good, and can help, but it is in no way going to supplant skill. Charles Ritz is worth reading, A Fly Fishers Life. Some of the rods made by Pezon Michel. I have a 7'2" #5 and a 7'4" #6 based on Bob Milwards tapers/ideas and they are virtual cannons. They will cast near or far as the case may be. They are totaly different in action than the aforementioned Bogart hollowbuilt. There is a lot of fun to be had in casting games, and different styles of rods and tapers.......... success starts with becomeing a better caster and working at it a little bit. Two things I know about tournament casters are, they alwyays watch their back cast, and they practice. Tight lines........ and long. Peter |
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sacripante |
#13 | |||
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Posts: 1 12/03/2009 08:27 |
Ciao,
Forse l'hardy Casting Club de france 8' #6 usata con #5 potrebbe fare al caso tuo. In bocca al lupo Oscar |
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