Hardy Demise

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bob2935	Hardy Demise		Lead	[-]
Posts: 589 12/10/2007 22:19	Tags : None Just wondering what reel collectors know about Hardy now making some or all of it's reels in either Korea or Japan? I understand that this is going on right now but unsure if that is all the reels or a select few. How about the Light weight series which is my favorite all time reel. Is that now being made in Korea? Any information about Hardy outsourcing it's reels to Korea or Japan would be greatly appreciated. Seems like just yesterday that the Art of Angling Journal did a great story on the Hardy plant. Depressed Bob
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ZenCane		#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 30 12/10/2007 22:53	Both Hardy USA (Cortland) and Hardy England have emailed me very explicitly stating that (at least for now) all the reels in the Classic Series (Lightweight, Bougle' and Cascapedia) are still made in England. The removal of the "Made In England" label, however, makes one a bit uneasy.....
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Sparquero		#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 48 12/10/2007 23:10	Heard today that the only reel to be made in the UK is the Cascapedia. All of the other performance & classic reels & rods will be made in China? or so I have been told. I heard this from a reputable guide in this area who said that he had a new Bougle that was made in China in his hands at a local Hardy dealer and could not tell the difference. What a shame, what was once arguably the most prolific, well known rod & reel maker in the world now outsourcing its rods & reels to a developing nation. I'm sure the decision was a tough one for Hardy, a lot of history there, but I guess it was all about the money after all. I wondered why the prices were dropping a bit on the new tackle. I wonder what affect this will have on the value of older collectible reels which were all made in Alnwick?
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bob2935	Hardy downfall	#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 590 12/11/2007 00:35	I don't know how other people feel but I will never purchase another new Hardy product. The historic company is now going down the drain. I was not that upset when Winston outsourced their cheap graphite's because their high end product was and still is made in Montana. It sounds like Hardy is making most or all of their low end and high end reels outside of England. To me that is totally different than what Winston did. I though you had to state on the reel or box where the product was made. Am I mistaken? Bob
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creakycane		#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1293 12/11/2007 00:44	If that's the case, and they are removing the "made in england" label, but still maintain they are made in the uk, something likely is up. It is hard enough for the guys who have been in this thing a bit of time to pay almost 500USD for a new Hardy Featherweight made in the UK. Korea or China? Forget it. Glad I have a dozen or so Lightweights and spools from times past, as they will probably be soaring on the 'bay the next few years......
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Berry Point		#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 214 12/11/2007 04:17	May I recommend Tom Friedman's The World is Flat. Get used to it. There's more to come.
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DrakeBob		#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1169 12/11/2007 09:34 Formerly Drake	As Paul alludes, it's not so much the "downfall" of Hardy as it is that the old paradigms are broken and won't be back any time soon. The bigger guys don't have much choice if they want to stay around at all in this business. The alternative is that they can terminate 75% of their employees and become smaller niche guys. They have evidently chosen to do something else with their business. There really is only one thing to do, IMNSHO, and that is to support your local rod and reel maker - the guy who has a better idea and who is doing it on his own. Not only will you be able to avoid doing business that is distasteful to you, you'll also help to keep the real (reel?) craft alive.
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DoctorFly	Hardy Heritage!	#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 53 12/11/2007 11:47	DrakeBob wrote: The alternative is that they can terminate 75% of their employees and become smaller niche guys. Unfortunately, they've terminated their old employees anyway. Here's a local newspaper article from last January. Quoting their MD - "Three years ago, 66% of our staff were employed in manufacturing our products. Now that figure is less than 20% [about 20 people], with a far greater emphasis placed on sales and marketing and research and development." I'm sure the shareholders are happy though. Doc
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DrakeBob		#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1170 12/11/2007 12:06 Formerly Drake	DoctorFly wrote: I'm sure the shareholders are happy though. Hopefully they are. After all, it's their company. Interesting article. The first is that our products are now largely manufactured in the Far East and, as a result, they have become price competitive in foreign markets like the US [because the pound is much stronger than the dollar]. I submit that the difference in the currencies is only part of it. Substitute 'sneakers' for 'fly reels.' It's all the same. The American preference for quantity over quality and cheap because of the quantity desired drives more than we can ever imagine. We have nothing to complain about in this country. We are getting exactly what we're asking for. Present company excepted, or course. We'd all be happy to make do with just one or two expensive, quality-made reels. Last Edited By: DrakeBob 12/11/2007 12:08. Edited 1 time.
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Berry Point		#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 215 12/11/2007 13:45	Bob has it exactly right. The dynamics of the global market have indeed forced a rapid and, for many, unwelcome change in the business models of companies we have come to know and trust over many years. Orvis moved their reel production a couple of years ago, behind many others FWIW, and now Hardy. They had to in order to stay price competitive and profitable, and yes, to please the shareholders. But it's more than that for the likes of Orvis and Hardy, and here I'm not sure I'm comfortable comparing sneakers to fly reels. The imperative for them is how can they outsource their production without compromising their quality and reputation? Very unhappy shareholders indeed! So they have to get it right. At first Hardy and Orvis will be able to trade on the cache of their names alone, but if their products are not made to a very high standard and word spreads that their reels are less reliable or inferior then it defeats the whole purpose of moving production offshore in the first place, don't you think? My guess is that Orvis and Hardy chose their Japanese and Korean suppliers very, very carefully, and someday they'll be Chinese. The knowledgeable consumers (that would be us) will resist at first, but in time even that will pass. How do you like your wide screen plasma HDTV and Toyota? Now there are those of us who are hide-bound to home-grown or British craftsmanship and tradition--count me in. The ever-escalating prices of rods and reels discussed many other places on this site are certainly due in part to a craving for this rapidly passing age. I guess we just have to buy 'em up while we can. But again, Bob has it right when he suggests that within our means we do all we can to support the current bench trade in rods and reels. There will always be a market for them, but it's up to us to ensure sufficient demand so that market doesn't become so small that only Bill Gates can afford them. That's not my 2 cents, it's my paradigms--remember when they and a nickel could buy a cup of coffee Paul
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Red Butt Retiree		#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 15 12/11/2007 14:28	A bit off-topic, and I apologize. But a recent battle with some far Eastern square drive screws got me in more of a jingoistic mood than usual. And I realized that a related new interest, kayak fishing, had given me more opportunities to invest in pure American-made products than I've had in years in other fields. Consider the made-in-USA stuff: kayaks (Malibu), trailer (SportsRig, less some points for imported tires), paddles (Cannon), dry suit, boaters' pants, and other clothing items (Kokatat), cable locks (Lasso), PFD's (Stearns for some, with only slightly reduced points for Mustang (British Columbia)), seats (Surf to Summit), signaling reflector/loudhailer (Smith & Wesson). In many cases, the products were even made in the same state where I live. And I just installed a fly rod holder (Scotty, made in Canada) to hold my self-made rods (bamboo plus a lot of USA-made graphite and glass blanks). Reels are some I've had for a while, mostly: Penn International for the heavy stuff, Ballan, Lamson, some vintage Pflueger, and some good old English Hardy reels as well. I won't be towing these with my little Chrysler (hecho in Mexico, by the way), but with my part-Murrican Toyota truck (engine made in Alabama, truck assembled in Indiana). Still, all in all, it's been a much more satisfying shopping experience than I've had in years. Yes, the paradigm has shifted, but at least in my case, I could care less where Hardy makes their reels - I don't need any more, and they've effectively removed one highly overpriced brand from my consideration should a future need arise.
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ZenCane	Well, It's Over	#11	[url]	[-]
Posts: 33 12/11/2007 15:01	Contrary to my earlier post, here is the email I received from Cortland (Hardy USA distributor). My original email is below: Dear Marvin, Thank you for your email. Hardy made the decision over summer to change the production of their products to Korea. Currently, I believe all of their reels are being made overseas, including their rods (except for the Gladstone, that we know of). Even so, the quality control of the reels is still the same and the standards have not dropped. Best Regards, Michael Foreman Oversea Accounts, Sales Cortland Line Company, Inc. 3736 Kellogg Road, PO Box 5588 Cortland, NY 13045 Phone: (607) 756-2851 Ext. 101 Fax: (607) 753-8835 E-Mail: mforeman@cortlandline.com Cortland Line Company, Inc. http://www.cortlandline.com -----Original Message----- From: Marvin Roberson Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2007 8:50 AM To: MIKE FOREMAN Subject: Hardy Reels Sir/Madam, There continue to be rumors that Hardy reels are shifting production out of England. Please confirm which reels are made in England, and what "Made In England" means - are they assembled there from English parts, assembled there from offshore parts, etc? Thanks. Last Edited By: ZenCane 12/11/2007 16:36. Edited 1 time.
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BobS		#12	[url]	[-]
Posts: 739 12/11/2007 16:31	"...they've effectively removed one highly overpriced brand from my consideration...." That's exactly it, for me. I thought their graphite rods were ludicrously overpriced a couple of years ago, and that was when I still believed they were being made in England. Hard to believe people buy the stuff. Too bad. Maybe tacky T-shirts next, and they'll become the new A&F.
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rollcast		#13	[url]	[-]
Posts: 711 12/11/2007 19:53	I have said this before, but it is very expensive to do business in Alnwick. Google "Alnwick real estate."
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Red Butt Retiree		#14	[url]	[-]
Posts: 16 12/11/2007 21:30	Think Alnwick's bad? Try Marin County, CA (where I've lived for over 23 years, continually wondering how).
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bob2935	Hardy's history for me.	#15	[url]	[-]
Posts: 591 12/11/2007 21:42	Thanks for all the great information. I am most definitely done in relation to purchasing any of the new Hardy product. Though I am very adept at justifying one more tackle purchase I will never be able to rationalize the continued high cost for a third world fly reel. I purchased Hardy in the past in part because of the great tradition of quality and excellent customer service. Understand all things must change, but I have seen Hardy as being traditional and timeless. Oh well more cash now to blow on just one more cane rod. Still thought you had to state somewhere on your product where it was made? Am I wrong on that one. Bohemian Bob Last Edited By: bob2935 12/11/2007 21:45. Edited 1 time.
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Tricky		#16	[url]	[-]
Posts: 151 12/11/2007 21:56	glad I didn't pick up that MK VI bougle on ebay...how deeply sad
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Trout120		#17	[url]	[-]
Posts: 681 12/11/2007 22:06	What's left regarding history and class?? Sick. Really sick, no matter what the reason is. T120
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pcg		#18	[url]	[-]
Posts: 931 12/11/2007 22:16 Admin	Really sick, no matter what the reason is. Unfortunately, that's well said. Some companies are more than just their everyday product. They become institutions, icons, even ideals. If they then eliminate the workers--many with families that have probably worked there for generations--then shift towns, then jump the country itself--oh my gosh. Let's get real. English-made meant something. Korea is yet to establish that impeccable craftsmanship, plasma TVs aside. All too bad.
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Middle Branch		#19	[url]	[-]
Posts: 486 12/12/2007 03:28	I love English made Hardys as much as anyone, and I doubt I'll buy a Korean made model. But why do people think that quality always goes down when manufacturing goes to Asia? For all we know, the Korean made reels could actually be a higher quality product. Just speculation. And the prices of Featherweights have gone through the roof. When I first started looking at them 4 years ago, it was very possible to get a nice one for $150, maybe even less. Now a beater is going for $200 minimum, and a nice one is going for $300. And they're not even close to being in the same league as a Perfect, but they're getting close to Perfect prices. I guess I'm gonna have to settle for a Heddon 310 for the time being. The quality is similiar, but the Heddon is 1/8 the price. What's in a name?
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Berry Point		#20	[url]	[-]
Posts: 216 12/12/2007 06:02	Bingo, Middle Branch. I've never seen, much less handled one, but there has been a lot of praise thrown around here lately for Kagerrow Rods and Kineya reels. Westslope caries them at prices on par with those made by the most reputable makers and machinists on this side of the pond. The social consequences and loss of tradition associated with outsourcing to Asia are one thing, worthy of discussion and many years of nostalgic retrospect. But quality is another matter. Serendipity said it well on this forum's sister thread about outsourcing: "If Hardy decided to reissue the Uniqua, I don't think I should really care if it was made by Bill Young, or by Yung Ho as long as it was well made."
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